Friday, September 24, 2010

French versus English Volume 15

TV commentator calls Anglos & Immigrants -"Abnormal"
In the unremitting hateful world of Quebec nationalists, anglophones and immigrants continue to represent an 'abnormality' because they won't vote for the Parti Quebecois. 
Imagine that!
For ex-MP and panel regular on RDI (CBC French news channel,) Jean-Pierre Charbonneau that's exactly what he said on air. Complaining that ethnics act too "anglo.'
"For many immigrants the constitutional question remains a sticking point, which hinders them from acting like normal citizens. In the end they act just like anglophones, who have an allergy towards the PQ even if it isn't about a referendum " Hear the Comment (French)
I guess voting for the PQ is what nationalists mean when they say they want immigrants to assimilate.

After viewers bombarded the station with complaints over the remarks, Mr. Charbonneau apologized telling the audience that at first he didn't even believe that he had made the offending remark and that he had to go to the tape for confirmation. Must have been a Freudian slip. And so Mr. Charbonneau told the audience in a mea culpa that he has nothing but the greatest respect for immigrants.  As for the anglos, not so much.... Ahemm.....
See him grovel here.. starting at 1:45sec. of the video

Militant Receives Absolute discharge 
After admitting harassing an anglophone candidate running for a city council position, Jean-Roch Villemaire was found guilty in a Gatineau courtroom. Link(French)
"As of late, I've sent several emails to West Quebeckers and Barbara Charlebois demanding that they stop anglicizing Quebec. I also wrote "Français", "Québec libre" and "FLQ" on two windows and the West Quebecers sign. I removed  about a dozen of Ms. Charlebois' election signs. I didn't commit any act of violence, nor did I make any calls to violence either.  - Jean-Roch Villemaire
 Read my post about the incident
After receiving a very generous 'absolute discharge' in court, Mr Villemaire seemed to have mellowed somewhat, perhaps wiser with his brush with the legal system. Or maybe he was just keeping up appearances until sentencing. As I predicted in that blog piece, he has remained off the militant grid ever since being charged. It remains to be seen whether he returns to his past ways, now that he is a 'free' man.
The only condition imposed upon him by the court was that he repay the Regional Association of West Quebecers, $500 for the trouble he caused, a sweet irony.

Talk-Show Host- Albertans are 'illiterate Hillbillies'
Decrying western Canadians opposition to the gun registry, afternoon talk-show host and noted anglo-basher Benoît Dutrizac called Albertans "a band of illiterate hillbillies' because according to  him, they are unable to fill out the necessary forms.

Taking the blowhard to task is blogger 'David' writing on the conservative web site- Republique de Bananes.
Apparently Mr. Dutrizac should check his figures before mouthing off. It seems that Alberta has the lowest rate of illiteracy in Canada and Quebec has the the highest and this by a wide margin! Over half of Quebeckers are either illiterate or functionally illiterate!
Touché!

Future Francophone teachers cheat on French Test
Exasperated by a French test that future francophone teacher must pass to be licensed and which they deem too difficult, someone has created a Facebook page where they disclose several of the test's  questions. The site has over 1,100 members where they 'discuss' aspects of the test. See the Facebook page HERE
Here's a sample of the type of stuff being posted;

 "For the September 12 2010, Here's what I remember of the vocabulary section;
Paradoxe, Tacite, Exubérant,
...Prendre le taureau par les cornes,
Marcher sur des oeufs,
le suffixe "ite" comme dans "cellulite" et "bronchite",
le suffixe "èdre" comme dans "polyèdre" ou "hexaèdre"  
Link(French)
It's good to know that the future guardians of the educational system are nothing more than a band of cheaters, spelt "T-R-I-C-H-E-U-R-S."

Who earns more, Francophones or Anglophones?
The current war over the question of who earns more, francophones or anglophones, between Jack Jebwab on the anglo side and Charles Castonguay on the francophone side,  is proof positive that depending on your point of view, it's possible to make statistics say just about anything.
It started with an article by Jebwad, claiming that francophones make more than anglophones. This was countered by Castonguay, an retired professor of mathematics, who 'proved' that the opposite was true. Now Jebwab is swinging back.
In a well written and perhaps unintentionally hilarious piece, Marian Scott of the Montreal Gazette describes the ongoing saga. 
Whether you're French or English you're going to enjoy seeing those statistics dance according to the 'caller.'
For added pleasure, read the article while listening to a recording of "Duelling Banjos," it'll set the perfect tone! 

Montreal becoming more "like them, less like us"
Writing from the cosy environs of the lily white, Catholic, Quebec City region, Réjean Labrie  decries the fact that immigrants are literally changing the face of Montreal.
"Little by little, Quebec is de-nationalizing, losing the elements of its own identity like a tree losing its leaves, becoming less like us and more like them.  Link (French)
I wouldn't have posted this run of the mill story except for a rather poignant allegorical photo that was included in the piece, a picture of a pure and bewildered Quebecoise, surrounded ignored and overwhelmed by 'les autres.'


Macleans dropping another bomb on Quebec
An email  from "Frank P." directed me over to Patrick Lagacé's blog where he advised readers that Macleans magazine is dropping another one of those Quebec-bashing bombshells in it's issue that drops today. Read some portions online, this week-end.

 As Frank P. wrote;
"Best we hold on to our "toques" as this one is going to create a wof "Ad nauseam Lamentata" (sic) by the usual nationalistic pseudo-victims zealots."
I've no doubt.....

 SEE ALSO:
 French versus English Volume 14

71 comments:

  1. "Future Francophone teachers cheat on French Test "

    This is unreal. So I decided to write a letter to the Education Minster.


    Mme Beauchamp,
    I am not sure if you are aware of this. But there is a Facebook page for the test "TECFÉE". On this page all the test questions have been posted and people discuss the answers to help people pass. This should be simple enough for you to deal with. Whoever is on this page and that has written this test should not be allowed to become a teacher in Quebec. What will they teach students, " ok chapter two, CHEATING"

    Here is the description of the page.

    Category:
    Student Groups - Academic Groups
    Description:
    Ce groupe est pour les personnes qui n'ont pas encore réussi le fameux TECFÉE. Il suffit de mettre des noms ou des expressions peu fréquentes ainsi que leur définition afin de se faire une banque de mots pour avoir une bonne note dans la partie "vocabulaire".
    Privacy Type:
    Open: All content is public.

    Here is the link:
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=120693951285015&v=wall

    ReplyDelete
  2. Does anyone else find it ammusing that (French)
    univertity graduates can't pass a French
    vocabulary test. Kinda explains the French
    school systems' lousy performance.


    Nice to see there were complaints after little
    bigot Charbonneau displayed his ignorance for
    all.

    Note to separtists. We have a saying in
    English - "If you'd kept quiet, we might have
    thought you intelligent.

    DD

    ReplyDelete
  3. Mississauga Guy said...

    DD, you're warm on the cliché, but it's more like "It is okay to think like a moron as long as you don't open your mouth and prove it!"

    The illiteracy rate in this country is astounding if those figures are correct, but now we know WHY Quebec is such a have-not jurisdiction. An illiteracy rate of 53.77%, and I think 80% of those people live in the Lac-St-Jean/Saguenay region.

    Just another reason why a federal political party is needed to put Quebec in its place--LAST! If Quebec doesn't like it, they can have yet another referendum and leave.

    On a slightly different topic, I read in the Gazette yesterday that the Habs obtained Jeff Halpern in the past few days. Now there are TWO Juifs on le Club de Hockey Canadien? Scandalous! The other is Mike Cammallari--his mother is Jewish, and Jewish law deems the child to take the religion of the mother. I'm sure Réjean Tremblay et al will have something to say about that if they haven't already.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Même si M. Charbonneau a dû s'excuser, son affirmation est tout de même véridique. La communauté anglaise divise les Québécois et c'est la raison pour laquelle il faut qu'elle soit réduite à sa plus simple expression.

    Par ailleurs, j'ai des contacts à Radio-Canada et ceux qui se sont plaints sont en grande majorité des allos et des anglos.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Over half of Quebeckers are either illiterate or functionally illiterate.
    No surprise. Anyone who has been following the sickening history of the Quebec nationalists has observed that keeping the average Quebecois dumb, fearful, and tethered to the farm has always been a part of the their exploitative agenda. The nationalist need captive, devoted voters to sustain their power base as keepers of the Quebec prison. People often say Quebec is changing, because informally most Quebecois no longer support the hateful nationalists. Bullshit! Like a gentle breeze, the Quebecois’ tacit support is all the nationalist need to fan the flames of their inexhaustible campaign of Anglo-phobic hatred. The examples of their bile are endless as this blog illustrates day after day, with no end in sight. Tic…tic…tic…

    ReplyDelete
  6. It's good to know that the future guardians of the educational system are nothing more than a band of cheaters, spelt "T-R-I-C-H-E-U-R-S."

    Mais de quoi tu parles? Les gens échangent et cherchent à s'aider, si les gens photocopient des sections de document préparatoire, s'il discutent du vocabulaire, ils ne font pas du plagiat.

    Quand vous pratiquez votre examen de conduite théorique ou pratique, la SAAQ elle-même met des questionnaires à votre disposition.

    Premièrement vous n'avez pas montré où il y a de la triche et là où il y en aurait, je ne vois pas du tout en quoi vous vous permettez de généraliser à l'ensemble des futurs enseignants.

    Votre commentaire est raciste : en taxant tous les futurs enseignants francophones de tricheurs, vous signifiez que c'est en raison de leur langue ou de leur culture qu'ils le sont.

    ReplyDelete
  7. According to Dick:

    "La communauté anglaise divise les Québécois et c'est la raison pour laquelle il faut qu'elle soit réduite à sa plus simple expression."

    Change "English" to "negro" and that statement comes straight from Ku Klux Klan playbook.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Même si M. Charbonneau a dû s'excuser, son affirmation est tout de même véridique. La communauté anglaise divise les Québécois et c'est la raison pour laquelle il faut qu'elle soit réduite à sa plus simple expression.

    Par ailleurs, j'ai des contacts à Radio-Canada et ceux qui se sont plaints sont en grande majorité des allos et des anglos.
    Your ‘matter of fact’ comment makes me sick, because it illustrates the degree to which the nationalist’s hatred has infiltrated the thinking of the average Quebecois. Nevertheless, thanks for speaking plainly. You simply confirm what we already know. The majority of Quebecois have been conditioned to view Anglophones as inconvenient and unwelcome. The oh-so genteel Quebecois feel they must gently cleanse their society of Anglophones, as they are the last impediment towards achieving the ultimate goal of a homogenous ethnocentric nationalist state.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Concernant l'article du Mcleans, je ne l'ai pas lu, mais il traite certainement de la présente période où c'est le Parti libéral du Québec qui gouverne. Le parti des Anglais. Avec à sa tête un Anglais. Et une corruption qui met surtout en cause des Italiens. Une communauté en grande partie anglaise.

    Ce genre de situation de corruption ne se produit pas avec le Parti Québécois au pouvoir. Lorsque ce sont des nationalistes qui gouvernent. Qui ont les intérêts de la nation à coeur, non ceux des amis.

    Donc ce gâchis est en grande partie dû à la communauté anglaise du Québec. Merci beaucoup. Et je le répète, la communauté anglaise est une nuisance pour le Québec.

    En plus, même si cette communauté et ses institutions forment la huitième merveille du monde, elle n'est même pas capable d'avoir de meilleurs revenus que les Québécois.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Et je le répète, la communauté anglaise est une nuisance pour le Québec.

    No need to repeat your racist rhetoric, you already personify the nationalist drone. Try as you may, you will never rid Quebec of the filthy abnormal Anglophone. Truth be told, we love a good fight. Take care not to bite off more than you can chew.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Regarding Charbonneau’s comment, this is not the first time I hear that voting against the PQ/BQ means acting on behalf of the evil Anglo community. To me, that’s either a sign of intellectual deficiency that doesn’t allow one to understand a very simple thing, or it’s willful manipulation of facts. Because I, like every other allophone, never vote for the PQ/BQ not because of some nefarious Anglo influence, but for a much simpler reason – namely that those parties do not represent people like me. Why on earth would I or any other allophone vote for a party that represents ONLY the interests of the Francophones and cares for nothing else? A party that’s about the French language, French culture, French advancement, French interests, French power, French, French, French. Please... Allo-phone means non-Francophone, i.e. somebody who has absolutely nothing to get out of parties like the PQ or BQ.

    It’s as if I were to start a white supremacist party today, and complain tomorrow that I have no black support.

    Quebec separatists must stop being so cynical. Either change your agenda and be more inclusive (I mean really inclusive, not only in words, but in actions), OR stick to your current platform and stop complaining that you get no non-Francophone support. Either, or. Not both.

    ReplyDelete
  12. "Try as you may, you will never rid Quebec of the filthy abnormal Anglophone"

    What would happen if they actually succeeded? Who would be the next enemy? Remember that parties like the PQ/BQ need an enemy as the raison-d'etre. These parties do not function as something constructive, but rather as something in opposition to something else. Without the opposition, they lose the raison-d'etre.

    My guess that allophones/immigrants would be the next enemy (if they aren't already).

    ReplyDelete
  13. I have to disagree with the editor on the Facebook cheating scandal. Modern students always share exam questions, whether online or off it is common practice. The Facebook site simply represents the natural evolution of this type of studying. As long as people actually learn, and not just memorize answers, there is nothing wrong with this. I have reviewed exam questions for every exam I've written since attending cegep and I don't consider myself a cheater. In fact, if the question was on an old exam it is unlikely to be on the exam you are going to take.

    Having said that, maybe French teachers should teach their students not to be bigots and assholes. That would be time well spent. If an anglophone or immigrant made a similar racist comment about francophones on TV or radio there would be a riot. There is such a double standard in this province it's crazy.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Mississauga Guy interjected...

    Editor! OH, EDITOR!

    Please forgive my questioning the rules of YOUR blog (ergo YOUR rules), but I perceive Dick as just another troll.

    Both entries he has contributed to this blog are inflamatory, hateful, inaccurate and allowing his second entry demonstrates he is impudent and extremely ignorant à la KKK. Sounds like one of those illiterate and ignorant Sagueneens I mentioned above.

    I thought you made it clear about two months ago you were terminating this behaviour. All it's going to do is fuel the fire and get this thread off topic. Worse yet, you're handing him the audience and responses he seeks.

    Again, your blog, your call.

    Regards,

    Mississauga Guy

    ReplyDelete
  15. Chénier dit: Le Maclean's peut bien penser ce qu'il veut, on s'en balance ! Si c'est ça l'intelligentsia canadienne anglaise ! On a pas a craindre ! Je vous suggère l'émission ''Tout le monde en parlait'' à Radio-Canada. Les deux épisodes portent sur la Crise d'Octobre (2e épisode ce soir, http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/tout_le_monde_en_parlait/2010/. D'après certains témoins, toutes les autorités étaient au courant, elles ont voulu donner un coup au mouvement indépendantiste... Pauvre Canada... Je vous laisse sur un ces paroles de Léo Ferré: ''Il y a deux sortes d'hommes, ceux qui ne se prosternent jamais et les autres''. Faites votre choix !

    ReplyDelete
  16. Cher DD, prenez un valium vous avez le syndrome de la Tourette ? Laissez donc le mot racisme de côté, il n'y a que les fous qui ne change pas d'idée ! Comme le disait Miron dans retour à nulle part: ''Ça ne pourra pas toujours ne pas arriver'' Québec indépendant !

    ReplyDelete
  17. How awful it must be for elderly Anglophones to grow old in such a hate filled environment. Aging is difficult and frightening enough as it is. Factor in the mean-spirited unyielding Anglos hatred and you have a terrifying mix. Over the years I've spent enough time in Montreal's so called 'English' hospitals, to have seen the heartless prejudices play out more than once, where both doctors and nurses bring their Anglo-phobic attitudes to work and pressure sick and confused people to speak French.

    ReplyDelete
  18. At 11:13 Dick said:

    "En plus, même si cette communauté et ses institutions forment la huitième merveille du monde, elle n'est même pas capable d'avoir de meilleurs revenus que les Québécois."

    According to Wikipedia, these are the residents of Quebec (all of them in Montreal region) worth C$ 1 billion or more. Tell me, how many of them are "Québécois" according to your standard? Hint: Paul Desmarais is NOT a "Québécois".

    Desmarais, Paul $4.28 billion Montreal, Quebec Power Corporation of Canada
    Azrieli, David $3.73 billion Montreal, Quebec Canpro Investments
    Saputo, Lino and family $2.76 billion Montreal, Quebec Saputo Inc.
    Bombardier, Joseph-Armand and family $1.9 billion Montreal, Quebec Bombardier Inc., Bombardier Recreational Products
    Jarislowsky, Stephen A. $1.85 billion Montreal, Quebec Jarislowsky Fraser Ltd.
    Adams, Marcel $1.74 billion Montreal, Quebec Iberville Developments Ltd.
    Laliberté, Guy $1.5 billion Montreal, Quebec Cirque du Soleil
    Coutu, Jean $1.21 billion Montreal, Quebec Jean Coutu Group
    Miller, Robert $1.19 billion Montreal, Quebec Future Electronics
    Kruger, Gene and family $1.11 billion Montreal, Quebec Kruger Inc.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Par ailleurs, j'ai des contacts à Radio-Canada et ceux qui se sont plaints sont en grande majorité des allos et des anglos.

    Duh!!! It goes without saying that no Quebecois called to complain. Anglos bashing is de rigueur in Quebec. And your point is? Anglos should shut up and tolerate your societal racism? If I were an English bulldog, I would eat your head.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Sidérant!

    Vous insinuez que nous sommes indépendantistes parce que illettrés, captifs et manipulés, alors que la rhétorique indépendantiste de mande précisément une compréhension claire des institutions politiques du pays, de son histoire et du droit.

    C'est plutôt le contraire, plus les Québécois francophones sont érudits et plus ils sont à même de constater combien tout nous éloigne des Canadiens et qu'étant minoritaire, il serait préférable d'instituer un État où nous pourrions être majoritaire.

    «If an anglophone or immigrant made a similar racist comment about francophones on TV or radio there would be a riot.» Ce bloque est truffé du double standard que vous dénoncez, mais quand l'expression du mépris et du racisme vient du côté anglophone, il est justifié?

    Quelle hypocrisie!

    ReplyDelete
  21. To L'ENGAGE & DR. DAVE

    The problem is that the questions are repeated on numerous exams and divulging them represents cheating....

    "I wonder about their attitude vis-à-vis the learning and language in general. When we begin to disclose the answers to an examination as important as this one, I wonder about their professional attitude."

    - Pascale Lefrançois, associate professor at the University of Montreal

    ReplyDelete
  22. Troy, could you please have some rigor and stay focused. If you had read the article linked to this debate you would have known that there is a link to an article from The Gazette, the best newspaper in the world.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Ce bloque est truffé du double standard que vous dénoncez, mais quand l'expression du mépris et du racisme vient du côté anglophone, il est justifié?

    We criticize your racist views and sociopolitical choices, you express contempt for our very existence. Learn the difference. Denial and evasion are your hallmark characteristics.

    ReplyDelete
  24. It appears that the troll 'Dick' is back as 'Dicque'.

    ReplyDelete
  25. L'engagé said...@September 24, 2010 1:19 PM

    " plus les Québécois francophones sont érudits"

    Problems understanding facts? The majority of
    Quebecers are illiterate!

    Anonymous said...@September 24, 2010 12:53 PM

    "Laissez donc le mot racisme de côté"

    When Quebec quits being the most racist place
    in Canada. Maybe you should take a valium - it
    might help with inablity to tell truth from
    fiction.

    DD

    ReplyDelete
  26. My rant...

    Am I justified in feeling a bit smug after seeing that MaCleans cover? I made mention some posts back about Quebec having more then its share of corruption and it looks like my gut was right about this.

    I must say that I dislike and take exception to your phrase "lily white". Would you use a term like "coal black" to describe a black area or region? Somehow I doubt it very much.

    The Toronto guy.

    ReplyDelete
  27. "that there is a link to an article from The Gazette, the best newspaper in the world. "

    So what? What's your point?

    ReplyDelete
  28. To L'Engage,
    I've previously written in comments on this blog that I am equally offended by racism, sexism, ageism ....... against anyone, French or English. I simply don't tollerate it. So no, franco-bashing is not justifiable.

    My point is this. If a francophone bashes anglo/allophones in the media, not only is it acceptable, anglo's should not even be allowed to complain about it. However, If an anglophone makes a comment about francophones it is justifiable, in the name of the French language, to demonize him/her in the media. This is called a "double standard."

    The republicans in the US have perfected this kind of politics and media control. The separatists are also using it effectively. "You are either with us, or you hate Quebec"

    ReplyDelete
  29. Funny thing about the Maclean's article: the foaming-at-the-mouth pseudo-victims label it as the usual "anglo bashing QC" yet, the author of the article is none other than, Martin Patriquin ;)

    @Anonymous 12:55PM
    It will get even worse alas. In today's Gazette an article indicates where the transfer of St Anne's vet hospital to the QC government is at.
    http://tinyurl.com/3xdf43r
    Note the last paragraph. How much you want to wager that once the hospital takes in civilians the "promise of language of choice" will go out the window?
    "One condition of the transfer the federal government will insist on, McIntyre said, is that Quebec agree to provide services to current Ste. Anne's residents "in their language of choice." "

    ReplyDelete
  30. Mississauga Guy interjected...

    Editor! OH, EDITOR!

    I have to disagree with you on this one. I think Dick's comment are valuable, because they illustrate so well the intolerant attitude that is all too common in Quebec. Every time this person posts a comment they solidify the ugly image the racist nationalist have earned.

    ReplyDelete
  31. "The republicans in the US have perfected this kind of politics and media control. The separatists are also using it effectively. "You are either with us, or you hate Quebec"

    In other words, no middle ground.

    For me, the best example of this principle is with Bill 101. "You criticize Bill 101, you're against French". As if the two were irrevocably connected. How about I'm against 101 because it is a repressive and petty law that (at this point in time) does not even aid French anymore, and at the same time I am not against the French language and the French people. How about that?

    Same with the Republicans in the US. During the Bush years, you could either ”be with us or with the terrorists”. How about being against Saddam and against Bush at the same time? The fact that I did not support the Iraq war did not mean that I was with Saddam or with the Al Kaida (even though there was no link between Saddam and the Al Kaida, but that’s besides the point). It simply meant that I believed that smashing a country to pieces and killing 100,000 of its inhabitants is not the way to oust a tyrant. There are other ways. The CIA knows about them. They knocked off Allende in the 1970's to make way for Pinochet without invading Chile. Or how about lending support to the Iraqi opposition and letting them sort it out over time, like they did with Solidarity in Poland.

    The "you're either with us or against us" logic is bogus. It's only use is to drown out dissent. But if some nationalist twit wants to insist on the “you’re either with Bill 101 or you’re against French” argument, then fine, I am against French. Just get off my back.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Chénier dit: Cher DD, avant de traiter les Québécois d'illettrés, je vous ferai lire les termes suivants (en français) http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/Economie/2010/09/07/016-rapport-decrochage-canada-ocde.shtml. Le Québec n'a malheureusement pas le pire résultat en matière de décrochage. Chez les garçons, les Québécois décrochent moins (8% de moins que la moyenne canadienne). Bref, on ne compare pas des phénomènes navrants, surtout lorsque notre argumentation est aussi scabreuse et fausse. Pour le racisme, on repassera...Pauvre Canada anglais ! http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-soleil/opinions/points-de-vue/201009/24/01-4326300-les-canadiens-sont-ils-xenophobes.php

    ReplyDelete
  33. To clarify, I did not mean to say that Allende was a tyrant. Far from it, he was a democratically elected president, but since he was left-leaning, the US got rid of him…and installed a tyrant in his place. So tyrants aren't so bad after all, as long as they play ball, as Saddam did until August 1991. Until his invasion of Kuwait, he could even gas the Kurds with impunity, while daddy Bush worked hard to suppress a Washington Post article on the issue...But I'm digressing here...Back to Quebec...Allez-y

    ReplyDelete
  34. @Chénier

    Bon point!Effectivement ces articles remettent les pendules a l'heure...Avancée de l'Est.Les anglos n'apprécient pas l'auto-critique.Ils préfèrent regarder la paille dans l'oeil du voisin plutôt que le madrier qu'ils ont dans l'cul.

    Bravo!

    ReplyDelete
  35. Chénier dit:@September 24, 2010 3:53 PM

    "avant de traiter les Québécois d'illettrés, je vous ferai lire les termes suivants (en français)"

    The article you refer to is dealing with 19
    year olds', most French Canadain males (in
    Quebec) never get out of high school. That
    article is about higher education.

    Read much? If you'd read the "alberta" piece,
    You would have seen Quebecs illiteracy rate is
    %53.77 and the article is aptly named:

    Arguing with Idiots

    DD

    ReplyDelete
  36. This is interesting. Louis Prefontaine addressing the Commission de la Culture et l'Education". 33:15

    http://diffusion.assnat.qc.ca/video2/39_1/CCE/cce201009231100_CONS.wmv

    ReplyDelete
  37. Je suis bien d'accord avec toi Chénier. Même que j'ajouterais que selon les statistiques les plus récentes 81 % des garçons québécois décrochent un diplôme d'études secondaires, comparativement à 70 % des garçons ontariens. Cela est dû au fait que les jeunes du Québec raccrochent aux études davantage que les Ontariens (Cyberpresse, 14 septembre 2010).

    De plus, 55 % des Ontariens estiment que l'immigration est néfaste, comparativement à 35 % des Québécois (Le Devoir, 10 septembre 2010).

    Comme quoi, le plus grand nombre d'illettrés et de racistes ne sont pas où certains pensent. Et on peut dire la même chose des nazis.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Chénier dit: Dear DD, je ne vois pas de quel article vous parlez, ''Arguing with Idiots'' ? Je crois que je le fait en vous écrivant ? Non ? À quel endroit puis-je trouver ce fameux (et précieux) document ? Je me base sur des articles sérieux et émanant de sources sérieuses. Regardez ''Tout le monde en parlait ''http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/tout_le_monde_en_parlait/2010/ Bon 40e anniversaire d'Octobre !

    Dion, Léon (1923-1997) Politicologue « Depuis 1763, nous n’avons plus d’histoire, sinon celle, par réfraction, que nos conquérants veulent bien nous laisser vivre, pour nous calmer. Cette tâche leur est d’autant plus facile que nous sécrétons nos propres bourreaux. »

    « [...) Entre le statu quo constitutionnel et l’indépendance du Québec, je choisirais l’indépendance. »

    ReplyDelete
  39. «How about I'm against 101 because it is a repressive and petty law that (at this point in time) does not even aid French anymore, and at the same time I am not against the French language and the French people. How about that?»

    Premièrement, la loi 101 garantit néanmoins aux anglophones et à leurs descendants des droits historiques, la taxer de mesquine c'est mal la connaitre.

    Ensuite, vous assimilez ne pas être contre le français «comme langue» à quelque chose comme de l'ouverture et il est évident que c'est un sacré pas lorsqu'on le compare à l'attitude méprisante que les anglophones ont déjà eu à l'égard du français, des «pea soups», «des frogs».

    Toutefois, quand vous critiquez la loi 101, vous critiquez le choix de la nation québécoise de fonctionner en français. Tout gain de l'anglais, dans la province, se fait au détriment du français, ainsi en préférant un «bilinguisme collectif», ou le «libre choix», et en privilégiant la contestation par les tribunaux pour gagner la joute politique entre les langues, vous arrivez à prendre en otage la majorité québécoise.

    Or, ce que vous ne semblez pas vouloir comprendre, c'est que sans une volonté politique ferme, sans loi, sans statu d'exception, l'avenir francophone du dernier territoire ou des locuteurs français sont encore majoritaires sera gravement compromis.

    Par ailleurs, vous nous reprochez notre manque d'ouverture, mais si chaque foi, les immigrants se tournent ver l'anglais, nous ne pouvons voir à travers eux qu'un processus d'assimilation, une menace, alors que nous devrions les voir comme une richesse. S'il choisissent le français, nous les voyons alors comme des nôtres et nous devenons fiers, comme vous Canadiens l'Êtes lorsque vous évoquez le métissage et le multiculturalisme.

    Vous voudriez que nous soyons ouverts, je vous dis de mon côté que nous nous sentons attaqués, lorsque vous critiquez la loi 101, parce que ce faisant vous nous déniez non seulement ce droit à l'autodétermination linguistique, mais aussi parce que vous refusez d'accepter que ce bilinguisme collectif de notre province signerait notre arrêt de mort.

    Il n'existe pas de « peuple bilingue», le bilinguisme est l'État transitoire par laquelle les locuteurs minoritaires deviendront des locuteurs de la langue de la majorité.

    Les anglophones du Québec vivant dans une Amérique aux produits culturels hyper-diffusé n'ont pas à craindre, ils parlent la «lingua franca» moderne.

    Les Québécois ne constituent que 2% de la population de l'Amérique, il me semble que c'est justement offrir une leçon d'ouverture que d'accepter qu'ils se donnent les leviers politiques, sociaux et linguistiques pour assurer leur pérennité.

    Pour ce faire, il est vrai que nous devons chercher à limiter (par l'éducation principalement) l'usage de l'anglais. Mais ça ne veut pas dire que nous sommes «contre l'anglais» en tant que langue (les Québécois sont, avouons-le, les citoyens les plus bilingues du Canada) ni contre les anglophones ou les Canadiens du ROC, mais que nous prenons les moyens pour protéger notre culture.

    Cela se fait au dépens des immigrants qui voudraient venir au Québec et fonctionner en anglais, nous voulons leur envoyer le message clair que la vie publique, l'éducation, le travail se passe, en français. Que s'ils veulent l'apprendre et s'intégrer, ils sont les bienvenus, mais qu'il leur sera très difficile de s'épanouir s'il choisissent de se limiter à l'anglais. S'ils y tiennent absolument, il leur serait préférable de choisir une autre province. Tout comme je dois parler anglais si je veux m'épanouir à Toronto, nous aimerions contribuer à faire la même chose au Québec.

    La chose ne concerne pas les anglophones qui, on le sait, ont des droits garantis.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Dicque said... @September 24, 2010 4:39 PM

    "Même que j'ajouterais que selon les statistiques les plus récentes 81 % des garçons québécois décrochent un diplôme d'études secondaires"

    Really, I read "A shade under 40 per cent of boys in Quebec drop out of high school in their teens, a rate that is among the highest in the Western world"

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-lost-boys-of-quebec/article1703310/

    DD

    ReplyDelete
  41. Chénier dit:""

    You didn't actually read this blogs post
    today,did you? Here you go:

    http://www.republiquedebananes.com/2010/09/13/arguing-with-idiots-benoit-dutrizac/

    DD

    ReplyDelete
  42. Chénier dit:

    "Dion, Léon (1923-1997) Politicologue « Depuis 1763, nous n’avons plus d’histoire, sinon celle, par réfraction, que nos conquérants veulent bien nous laisser vivre, pour nous calmer. Cette tâche leur est d’autant plus facile que nous sécrétons nos propres bourreaux. »

    Yet his son is a federalist.

    DD

    ReplyDelete
  43. Mississauga Guy retorts to "Mississauga Guy" misrepresentation @ 2:58PM:

    1. Please don't misrepresent me. You may address me with or without a salutation, but it was not I who wrote what 2:58PM wrote; good points nevertheless;

    2. 1:03PM: Please don't characterize English bulldogs as head-eaters. They're burly and some people think ugly, but they're actually very gentle. My bro, a confirmed bachelor, has had two bulldogs and will probably be getting his third one within the year. Those dogs have come as close to nieces and nephews as I'll ever have (since he'll never marry, and they'll be the closest thing he'll ever have to kids!!!)

    3. Editor: I told you so! Maybe my bro's next bulldog can be trained to eat trolls! (I think the Habs fans are going to eat a goalie this winter)!

    ReplyDelete
  44. DD, l'article (G&M) que tu proposes ne tient pas compte qu'au Québec le système d'éducation des adultes est plus développé qu'ailleurs au Canada. Le chiffre de 81 % tient compte de ceux qui ont obtenu leur diplôme dans la vingtaine. Donc, au total, les Québécois ont un plus haut taux de diplôme du secondaire que les Ontariens.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Hoo boy..the media is a blaze regarding the Maclean's article. Marc Garneau bleating divisiveness, Gilles Rheaume demanding sanctions by the Press Council, Bernard Drainville twisting the article by saying it calls Quebeckers corrupt, and the Bonhomme Carnivale head honcho (ironically named Jean Pelletier) calling for a lawsuit.
    Christ, you'd think Bonhomme = caricature of Prophet Mohammed ;)

    ReplyDelete
  46. Anonymous said...@6:01 PM

    "Donc, 'au total, les Québécois ont un plus haut taux de diplôme du secondaire que les Ontariens. "

    No, out of the few people who 'return to
    finish' (ie adult ed.) you're correct but
    the failure rate in Quebecs' French high
    schools average %40 - %50 (English Quecbec
    schools average %20 failure rate)

    DD

    ReplyDelete
  47. "La chose ne concerne pas les anglophones qui, on le sait, ont des droits garantis."

    Pour combien de temps encore?Lorsque nous aurons notre pays,devrions-nous leur accorder encore ces petits privilèges?Ou continuer graduellement
    A dimunuer leur espace.

    Je crois que les Québécois devraient commencer a se consulter sur ce sujet.Plusieurs seraient en faveur de tout couper d'un coup sec et d'autres seraient en faveur de la méthode douce,c'est-a-dire un droit a la fois.

    Lorseque je lis les commentaires sur ce blogue, je serais porté vers la première méthode.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Chénier dit: Cher DD, vu l'active ardeur à contredire tout ce que les tenants de l'option indépendantiste dit, je me demande: ''Mais bon dieu, j'espère que vous n'habitez pas au Québec, sinon, vous aimez souffrir !'' Si oui (ça sera une première fois pour vous, l'expérience du ''Oui ?'', vous faites du bon travail, on l'aura notre État, Eh ho banane !? (comme dans république de bananes !)

    Marcel Tessier, Historien « Si les Québécois connaissaient leur histoire, ils seraient souverains depuis longtemps ! » - 2001

    ReplyDelete
  49. Je suis entièrement d'accord avec ton point de vue, 7:23 PM. Comme toi, je préconise de leur coupé leurs privilèges d'un coup sec. Car comme tu le sais, les Anglos du Québec, aussi bien les sujets mâles que femelles, sont de vraies braillardes. Il faudra donc régler leur cas le plus rapidement possible, sinon leurs lamentations vont s'éterniser.

    Par ailleurs, il faudra aussi travailler sur le fléau que constituent les mariages mixtes entre franco et anglo. En effet, alors que la proportion de couples mixtes était de 25 % en 1971, elle était rendue à 46 % en 2006 !!! Ce qui signifie que près d'un anglophone sur deux qui vit en couple a un conjoint francophone !!! Ce qui signifie également qu'un francophone ayant un enfant avec un anglophone participe activement à l'assimilation de son peuple, en mettant au monde de tels monstres bilingues et biculturels !!!

    ReplyDelete
  50. I just listened to Dutrizac's clip; indeed he spouts off the quoted nonsense. However, I'm slightly perplexed why Tasha Kheiriddin, who he was conversing with, did not take him to task. I don't know Tasha so perhaps it's not her way but you can be damn sure that if *she* had said QC'ers are illiterate Dutrizac would have been all over her.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Well there are many interesting things this evening.

    I watched( en francais) radio canada with their explanation of how the death of Pierre LaPorte was accidental and they (the FLQ) didn't really want this to occur. I cannot believe the methodology that the Quebecois will utilize to to excuse themselves from the terroism they infliced upon our country. Just saying ...we didn't really mean it...is little concelation for the Laporte Family and the Crosse family. If you didn't want to cause the problem, why did you kidnap the people in the first place.. As on former Flq said, we just wanted airtime to vent our demands. YOu have to cause the death of someone and the inconveniences to all of us in your process of air time. No forgiveness from me. The co-conspiritants should be put in jail as enemies of the stae. Wait a minute, so should Gilles Duceppe, who takes a large salary and is trying to accomplish the same thing as the FLQ in October. Albeit with less balls.

    Then we have the issue of the Macleans article. Quebec bashing they are all saying includng the dishones politicans such as Mulclair, Canon etc etc. Its not bashing as it is the truth. No one has refuted the facts. They all just say it is wrong. There is no BONHOMME in Quebec as we are coming to understaand. Just MALHOMME as Charest, Tremblay Marois, Duplessis, Mulroney, Chretaine (Shawinigate) and the list goes on.

    The good people of Canada have to wake up and realize that Macleans is right with their article and that Canada would be better without the entire province of Quebec who bring nothing but problems and frustration to country who would be otherwise grand without the negative influence.

    Now stand up and take a stand. Have you not all heard or put up with enough from the bastard province of Quebec.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Chénier dit:"vu l'active ardeur à contredire tout ce que les tenants de l'option indépendantiste "

    Because separtists tend to share the ignorant
    bigotted points of view espoused by the narrow-
    minded waste of space below.

    Anonymous said...@September 24, 2010 9:21 PM

    "Par ailleurs, il faudra aussi travailler sur le fléau que constituent les mariages mixtes entre franco et anglo. En effet, alors que la proportion de couples mixtes était de 25 % en 1971, elle était rendue à 46 % en 2006 !!! Ce qui signifie que près d'un anglophone sur deux qui vit en couple a un conjoint francophone !!! Ce qui signifie également qu'un francophone ayant un enfant avec un anglophone participe activement à l'assimilation de son peuple, en mettant au monde de tels monstres bilingues et biculturels !!!"

    Yes Chénier, I, as my family has for
    generations, live in Quebec. To think for
    oneself (as opposed to being a brainless
    lemming - as above) can at times (in Quebec) be "inconvenient".

    DD

    ReplyDelete
  53. Maclean's, c’est la nouvelle marque de papier de toilette de McDonald’s !

    ReplyDelete
  54. «I cannot believe the methodology that the Quebecois will utilize to to excuse themselves from the terroism they infliced upon our country.»

    1 personne tuée et «vous» faites venir l'armée? Vous nous occupez, vous suspendez no droits, vous usez de méthodes dignes des dictatures (voir Les Ordres, de Michel Brault) et vous remettez sous le nez aux Québécois collectivement d'être responsable de terrorisme, lequel est pourtant la conséquence d'un sentiment d'oppression réel, bref vous refusez d'admettre votre responsabilité dans la genèse du conflit qui nous oppose à vous.

    Ensuite je lis :
    «that Canada would be better without the entire province of Quebec who bring nothing but problems and frustration to country who would be otherwise grand without the negative influence.

    Now stand up and take a stand. Have you not all heard or put up with enough from the bastard province of Quebec.»

    Est-ce que j'ai lu bâtarde ici? Et je devrai accepter que l'on aie le monopole de «l'ignorance, du point de vue étroit et bigot»

    Le point de vue de celui qui s'inquiète des mariages reflète la peur de l'assimilation et comme les Trudeau, Martin et Charest sont de piètres ambassadeurs pour la cause du Québec et du français, il est normal de présumer qu'un enfant véritablement bilingue de naissance et véritablement bi-culturel, ne verra pas d'inconvénients au fait d'assujettir de plus en plus la nation québécoise minoritaire à la nation canadienne majoritaire, puisqu'il peut toujours s'identifier à la nation dominante, ce que ne peuvent faire des Québécois en général.

    Vous qui vous prétendez si intelligents, pourquoi n'êtes vous pas capable de voir cette situation pourtant claire?

    Ne voyez-vous pas vous-même que le Québec est un État fédéré et que ce faisant il est absurde de comparer des indépendantiste à des conspirateurs ou des traitres? N'entendez-vous pas même la dissonance quand vous nous traitez de «séparatist», puisque dans un état fédéral, le terme est non seulement péjoratif, mais inexact? Quel mal y a-t-il à vouloir reconsidérer un lien établi en 1867 et dont la structure lourde désavantage les deux parties?


    Nous le voyons depuis 1960 et vous vous venez d'allumer? Qui a donc l'esprit étroit et borné par le nationalisme?

    Votre propre attachement au Canada vous empêchait de constater combien vous seriez bien sans nous...

    ReplyDelete
  55. "1 personne tuée et «vous» faites venir l'armée?"

    Par chez-nous on appelle ça des chieux ou des pissous si vous voulez.Pas surprenant que les millitaires du 22 ième régiment (Valcartier) soient considérés comme LES véritables soldats canadiens.
    Ce sont nos soldats qui étaient au front pendant que les pissous d'anglos se cachaient dans les bois durant la deuxième guerre mondiale.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Mississauga Guy retorted...

    Regarding the debate between Chénier and DD, I do have a «pur laine» cousin in Quebec. He nevertheless took a lot of ridicule because his name is English, his father was Jewish, but he speaks only French (not unique in Quebec). His father, my uncle, died when he was only a year and a half old, so his mother, my «tante» (100% Québécois de veuille souche) very successfully took over my late uncle's enterprises and brought up my cousin herself.

    My cousin caused her his fair share of grief along the way (smoking at ten?), but he took the high road in the end and seemingly has the entrepreneurial prowess of his parents.

    Based on his experiences, and others of mixed heritage of this sort in Quebec, I find the children either go one way, or the other. The 1980 Referendum was one teacher of how mixed marriages and families can manifest, pitting sibling against sibling, even spouse against spouse.

    I saw francophones ready to fight others of their ilk over the question. My brother and I are both English mother-tongued and grew up in a 100% Jewish household, and we have very opposing views on Quebec politics. Perhaps the fact he is far more fluent in French (and Hebrew at one point) than I am demonstrates he has linguistic prowess and he chose to immerse himself and built a very good career in the Quebec parapublic sector. His views on this subject are far more liberal than mine, but I am who I am and I've held my views with little change over the last 35 years plus.

    One can't suck and blow at the same time. One has brown eyes, or doesn't. You're one gender, or the other. A woman is pregnant, or she isn't. Either you're a separatist, or you're not. Yes, it's possible to play the serpentine game and slither between the two, but that's hypocrisy, a pretender.

    This is why I'm convinced most Québécois Francophones are separatists. Former MNA Reed Scowen wrote in his book "Time to Say Goodbye" about a dear, close personal Francophone friend who would argue to the death he's a federalist, but this fried also wrote a publication where he stated Quebecer's first voice is the Government of Quebec, not the Government of Canada, and THAT right there is proof that person in reality is a separatist.

    I never felt that way in Quebec, but then again, since my adolescence, I never felt I had a true voice in the Quebec government. I felt I was an enemy of what should have been my own government.

    Living in Ontario the last quarter century has proven I do have a government here, but I still consider the federal government my first voice for it represents the whole country except Quebec. In Quebec, though, I didn't feel I had a government at all. The feds NEVER jumped to the aid of Anglophones in Quebec fearing voter alienation in the majority (Francophones).

    Again, this states the case for a federal political party that represents Anglophones first EVERYWHERE. There would be candidates running in Quebec, but only where the minorities prevail. This would give Anglophones in Quebec a chance to vote for candidates who REPRESENT them, not IGNORE them. That would be candidates mostly on the West Island of Montreal and West Central Montreal + maybe candidates in Chomedey in Laval and the St-Lambert-Greenfield Park area on the South Shore. Outside of those areas, the candidates would be there for posture and little else.

    Editor, I wish you'd put this up as a topic for discussion. For now, I'd like to ask the readers of this blog (Anglophones anyway), if they're for this idea, or against it. Francophones need not respond as their answer is already determined, or to state the least, quite predictable.

    ReplyDelete
  57. « 1 personne tuée et «vous» faites venir l'armée? Vous nous occupez, vous suspendez no droits, vous usez de méthodes dignes des dictatures »

    J’aime bien que tu aies mis en guillemets le « vous », puisque c’est bien à Trudeau qu’on doit l’ordre. J’aimerais pourtant attirer « votre » attention au fait que Trudeau lui-même avait de sérieuses réservations quant à l’utilisation de la loi des mesures de guerre. Ce n’est, en effet, qu’à la demande de deux québécois de tendance par ailleurs assez nationaliste – Robert Bourassa et Jean Drapeau – que la mesure a été prise.


    “ […] vous remettez sous le nez aux Québécois collectivement d'être responsable de terrorisme, lequel est pourtant la conséquence d'un sentiment d'oppression réel […]”
    I agree with L’engagé here far more than I disagree. Anonymous (1:02 AM), the label “Québécois” as used in your original quote was not only a poor choice on your part, but also reflects a worrying belief – latent or conscious – that all of us agree with the actions of the FLQ terrorists. Indeed, federalists and even many convinced separatists are repulsed by the idea of using of using force and particularly terrorist means to achieve or otherwise further Quebec independence.

    At the same time, the FLQ, like many terrorist organizations globally, is best understood as a reactionary, demand-based protest movement whose basis is grounded in popular dissatisfaction stemming from a sense of accumulated exploitation. I agree with you wholeheartedly on the FLQ’s means and ends being the work of bandits and criminals, and the halfhearted “we didn’t really mean it” reeks of the same moral relativism that pervades Quebec nationalist discourse to this day. But while Quebec history is littered with examples of our francophone religious/political elites practically cannibalizing our own to curry favor with the British/Anglo establishment for themselves, a fuller examination would add that if the Anglo establishment hadn’t approached certain topics as it had, things would probably have been different in 1970, and likely different today.


    « […] vous refusez d'admettre votre responsabilité dans la genèse du conflit qui nous oppose à vous. »

    Tout à fait d’accord. Si nous nous étions sérieusement engagés à fondre deux identités en une seule bilingue et réussie, les choses auraient certainement pu être différentes rendus en 1970. Or, avec le recul, toute situation peut être recontextualisée et vivement critiquée; parfois à bon escient. Parfois aussi à mauvais escient. Et quand on manipule ou glorifie en recontextualisant, ça me donne des frissons, peu importe de quel camp ça vient.


    “Canada would be better without the entire province of Quebec who bring nothing but problems and frustration to country who would be otherwise grand […] ” + « Est-ce que j'ai lu bâtarde ici? »

    Again, Anonymous 1:02, you must be a self-hating francophone. I wonder if you troll around this blog attempting to skew the comments and perceptions of the readership here while faking your own positions. Come on already, “utilize” , “concelation”, “Crosse” (sic), “You have to cause the death […] and the inconveniences to all of us in your process of airtime”, “Chretaine”, “nothing but problems and frustration to country who would be otherwise grand”, “bastard province of Quebec”. A non-francophone wouldn’t even know to make half of your mistakes. Pas besoin de passer pour Judas of French Canada. Commente-donc en français; ça va être bien plus facile pour toi et beaucoup moins fatiguant pour nous autres. At least I’m a genuine federalist who tries to be multilingual and isn’t afraid of calling out an “anglo” commenter for views he expresses when I read them. Et en français sur un blogue anglo, quand ben ça me tente!

    (1)

    ReplyDelete
  58. « […] les Trudeau, Martin et Charest sont de piètres ambassadeurs pour la cause du Québec et du français […] »

    J’avoue que ce ne sont peut-être pas les meilleurs séparatistes qu’on ait envoyé à Ottawa et/ou à Québec. Trudeau et Charest ont en commun le fait d’insister que le Québec devrait et a le droit de revendiquer SA PROPRE PLACE AU SEIN D’UN CANADA UNI, tout en n’ayant pas peur d’affirmer fièrement leurs origines mixtes. Des bilingues comme on ne peut plus exemplaires, c’est grâce à leurs efforts au plans constitutionnel, linguistique, et culturel qu’on a pu assister à une période de relative accalmie. En passant, Paul Martin, père comme fils, étaient tous deux franco-ontariens.


    « […] il est normal de présumer qu'un enfant véritablement bilingue de naissance et véritablement bi-culturel, ne verra pas d'inconvénients […] »

    Tu veux dire comme moi? OUI! YES! Enfin quelqu’un qui commence à comprendre ce que je dis lorsque je soutiens qu’on peut être franco et anglo et allo à la fois, tout en faisant montre du mieux ce que veut dire être québécois et canadien au même instant… mais peut être je m’avance trop vite…


    « […] ne verra pas d'inconvénients au fait d'assujettir de plus en plus la nation québécoise minoritaire à la nation canadienne majoritaire, puisqu'il peut toujours s'identifier à la nation dominante […] »,

    D’abord, un enfant, ça pense moins aux enjeux politico-culturels et plus à la récréation. Mais c’est un bon paradigme tout de même, alors je poursuis. Ce que fait vraiment valoir tel enfant bilingue aux adultes dans son milieu, c’est qu’il est capable de butiner, de passer d’une « solitude » à l’autre en deux temps trois mouvements. L’assujettissement que tu évoques, c’est l’insécurité et la peur que pourraient ressentir certains adultes à son endroit (et plus honnêtement au leur). Ceux-ci auraient fort probablement grandi dans un climat de soumission rancunière ou de frustration complètement étranger de ce qu’a connu (et que ne connaitra jamais) cet enfant. Et, je soumets, plus triste encore, ils le lui en voudront comme bouc émissaire pour toutes leurs propres opportunités manquées.


    «[…] ce que ne peuvent faire des Québécois en général. »

    Voilà, ça prouve ma théorie. Les québécois « en général » (j’imagine que ça doit être du code pour « unilingues ») reprochent à cet enfant d’être tout ce qu’eux ne sont pas. Doté d’une ouverture et facilité linguistiques devenues alors presqu’indissociable de sa propre personne, son ouverture sur la culture anglo dominante du continent au profit du village québécois ne vaudra plus grand-chose aux yeux des défaitistes chez les « grands ». Le bilinguisme multigénérationnel auquel voudra et devra s’engager certainement cet enfant sera son handicap dans un climat politique où l’accent est mis plutôt sur la menace qu’il représente que sur la taupe culturelle accomplie qu’il est devenu. C’est lui, tout petit, qui aura à limiter ses opportunités (ou dissimuler ses propres habiletés) pour apaiser leurs complexes. Rien de plus cruel, à mon humble avis. Je trouve fort plus triste l’assujettissement de l’enfant aux caprices et anxiétés limitatives des arriérés de son village aux opportunités accrues que procure la disponibilité facile au bilinguisme.

    (2)

    ReplyDelete
  59. « N'entendez-vous pas même la dissonance quand vous nous traitez de «séparatist», puisque dans un état fédéral, le terme est non seulement péjoratif, mais inexact? »

    Oh quel beau jeu de mots constitutionnel sur lequel on s’embarque. Le Québec est bien un « état » au sein de la charpente fédérative canadienne; pas au sens de « pays » comme le voudraient certains, mais plus comme « partie constituante ». J’entends moi aussi une dissonance, voire une discordance lorsqu’on emploie le terme « séparatiste/séparation ». Mais ça ne vient pas de moi. C’est d’ailleurs ce qu’appellent « souveraineté » les séparatistes qui est en fait porteur de confusion et intellectuellement louche. Comme toutes les constituantes de la fédération canadienne, le Québec est bel et bien responsable, ou « souverain » si vous préférez, dans les champs de responsabilité et compétences qui lui ont été accordées en vertu de la loi constitutionnelle de 1867 (telles l’éducation, la santé, institutions municipales). Or, vouloir réaliser la « souveraineté » du Québec est un projet futile car fait accompli pour les domaines dont il est déjà responsable dans le cadre constitutionnel canadien. Il est donc non seulement plus correct de parler d’« indépendance » ou de « séparation », il s’agit d’une terminologie plus claire et compréhensible et dont l’objectif n’est pas d’amoindrir l’impact véritable du projet comme le cherchent à faire certains politiciens avec leur cage à homard terminologique. Je trouve les formes composées, ex. « souveraineté-association » d’autant plus risibles.


    « Quel mal y a-t-il à vouloir reconsidérer un lien établi en 1867 et dont la structure lourde désavantage les deux parties? »

    L’obstacle est politique. Aussitôt qu’on commence à faire le ménage pour satisfaire le Québec, d’autres provinces voudront embarquer pour en faire leur propre toilette tout comme nous. Débâcle assuré.


    «Nous le voyons depuis 1960 et vous vous venez d'allumer? Qui a donc l'esprit étroit et borné par le nationalisme? »

    Ce n’est pas depuis 1960 qu’on se dit que les anglais sont une espèce de maudits. Ça fait depuis la conquête qu’on a mal avalée et qu’on continue toujours à vouloir rayer des bouquins d’histoire. Comme on n’y parviendra pas, on réécrit et recontextualise. C’est nous qui insistions sur notre foi catholique alors que notre institution sacrée nous gardait illettrés et obéissante et captifs sur cette terre du Québec. Ce nationalisme pour lequel nous nous battions autrefois au plan religieux on fait aujourd’hui au plan linguistique. J’espère que ce dernier mourra et donnera lieu à un environnement beaucoup plus pluraliste et tolérant. On s’est donné du lousse côté catholique, et notre structure sociale ne s’est pas effondrée.


    « Votre propre attachement au Canada vous empêchait de constater combien vous seriez bien sans nous... »

    Votre propre attachement à un rêve mi-réalisé semi-réalisable vous empêche de voir combien nous serions bien si seulement on se concentrait sur nos vrais dossiers, à savoir, l’économique, le juridique, l’environnemental, le rendement scolaire, et j’en passe.

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  60. “I never felt I had a true voice in the Quebec government. I felt I was an enemy of what should have been my own government.”

    Half the battle is emancipation. The other half is not fighting the majority trend. The argument I see from Francophones is the mirror I see from Anglophones. They don’t feel one of the governments (or even labels) “belongs” to them. On the other hand, I feel I have a stake in all levels of government, as well I should. As I see it, the real enemy is inability to feel at home. That happens because of inability to communicate, which in turn occurs when bilingualism isn’t fostered and doesn’t become the norm. I feel just as comfortable summering in the Gaspésie as I do in the Okanagan. The last direct ancestor on my family tree who wasn’t multilingual in the 20th century never even set foot in this country. It’s okay to be an English-dominant or French-dominant bilingual. But dammit, start.


    “I still consider the federal government my first voice for it represents the whole country except Quebec”

    Actually, the fed represents Quebec too, whether we vote for the government or not. Our mostly num num booby-fed constituencies have simply decided to shut themselves (and a good part of our province) out. Large parts of us at least. Their bad, really. That doesn’t mean we’re not subjected to the same Parliamentary output as you are. Many of us didn’t vote for Harper either.


    “The feds NEVER jumped to the aid of Anglophones in Quebec fearing voter alienation in the majority (Francophones).”

    What would you have them do? And exactly what Federal instrument do you propose they use? Should they appropriate powers they don’t have and subvert the order of things? Come on, already. I’d like to hear serious constructive ideas because I’m not sure I’m seeing what you mean.

    “this states the case for a federal political party that represents Anglophones first EVERYWHERE.”

    I didn’t think we could possibly sink deeper down the political food chain than we did when the Bloc Québécois was born, but you’ve just proven me wrong. Precisely what would such a party advocate? Why not have a Yiddish party… which could fight night and day with the Italian party over the cultural relevance of of salami. Puh-lease.


    “For now, I'd like to ask the readers of this blog (Anglophones anyway), if they're for this idea, or against it.”

    AGAINST. CATEGORICALLY AGAINST. How much less do you want us to contribute to federal politics? We still vote in some Liberals and Conservatives, which can and do form federal governments. It’s bad enough the Bloc wastes Quebec’s demographic weight in the House, now we need to see it in stereo/English too? No way. Nay, one hundred percent. Contre, cent pour cent. If something were ever truly worthy of an in utero abortion, it’s this. And I’m a federalist. An anglo. A franco. And an allo. As usual, all three of me are voting no.


    “Francophones need not respond as their answer is already determined, or to state the least, quite predictable.”

    Have you lost your mind? And how dare you dismiss my opinion with a toss of your hand? I know you’re probably more than a few miles away from Walkerton, but what’s in your drinking water, dude? You really need to differentiate between anglos, francos, separatists, federalists, nationalists, allies, and adversaries. The lines are far from clean-cut. Some anglo federal politicians on this very island would sell their mother to the separatists if it made a profit. Some francophones have had the nerve to tell us what we didn’t want to hear when we least wanted to hear it. Some separatists have actually done more than anyone to make bilingual English-speakers like me extremely wealthy at their expense (mille fois merci!). Some federalists have misguidedly accepted money for work they didn’t do. And more than one nationalist is unsure where to cast their dice.

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  61. “The 1980 Referendum was one teacher of how mixed marriages and families can manifest, pitting sibling against sibling, even spouse against spouse.”

    Every other day is at worst a tenuous peace and at best an example of a broken system that works despite itself.

    Until everyone understands that many francophones in Quebec are both proud of our own existence and existentially terrified of our imminent Louisianization,

    Until the separatists ALL realize that their “people” survived quite well despite the absence of language laws between the capitulation of Quebec City and Bill 22, and

    Until the West Island anglos feel at home in a francophone-majority Quebec and the franco nationalists feel at home in an Anglophone-majority North America,

    There will be no true political peace on this topic.

    Such peace is possible, however. It’ll require not fearmongering, but a genuine commitment on both sides to a more meaningful cross-pollination. And an understanding that bilingualism isn’t the slippery slope to monolingualism, but rather the master key into and out of the otherwise fine cultural wine cellar that is this most privileged part of the world.

    A challenge or two to overcome?
    Nous vaincrons.

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  62. "Every other day is at worst a tenuous peace and at best an example of a broken system that works despite itself."

    Yes, as long as the ROC gives in to the continued demands of a spoiled Quebec. A totally one sided arrangment which is going to end soon as more and more realize that Quebec is not about Canada and more about extortion from Canada. There is not rationalization with this as the facts are clearly evident.

    "Until everyone understands that many francophones in Quebec are both proud of our own existence and existentially terrified of our imminent Louisianization"

    Certainly, I can understand this and have realized for some time that Quebec, being so distinct, should be their own nation. In this fashion the province can chart their own destiny with even harsher language laws upholding the language factor at the expense of minorities. Facts as they are at this time with Bill 101. N'est pas. Where else in the dominion of Canada are there laws restricting commercial signs or restricting education. Of course you will reference older laws with regards to french instruction in areas such as Western Canada. I remind you that these laws have been terminated for many years but language laws in Quebec have been maintained and some wish them even further reinforced. As I said, the facts are evident.

    "There will be no true political peace on this topic."

    Vous as raison avec ce pointe. All the more reason for Quebec to separate so peace can exist in the ROC , sans Quebec. Why would we wish to continue this bad marriage when it could be ended by a just divorce which would be amicable to both parties.

    "A challenge or two to overcome?"

    Likely numerous and of course door only seems to swing in one direction.


    Nous vaincrons.

    I doubt it but you can "avoir votre reves".

    Canada as a country would be far better without the negative influence of Quebec. The same could be, I suppose, said for Quebec with regards to Canada but that is not my call.

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  63. "Ne voyez-vous pas vous-même que le Québec est un État fédéré et que ce faisant il est absurde de comparer des indépendantiste à des conspirateurs ou des traitres? N'entendez-vous pas même la dissonance quand vous nous traitez de «séparatist», puisque dans un état fédéral, le terme est non seulement péjoratif, mais inexact? Quel mal y a-t-il à vouloir reconsidérer un lien établi en 1867 et dont la structure lourde désavantage les deux parties?"

    Prendre la porte, s'il vous plait. There will be no more deals allowing the nation state (province) of Quebec to be elevated above the status of the other provinces of Canada. Even Trudeau saw the fallacy of this concept as did Clyde Wells, Elijah Harper and others at the failed Meech Lake Accord.

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  64. “the ROC gives in to the continued demands of a spoiled Quebec. A totally one sided arrangment which is going to end soon as more and more realize that Quebec is not about Canada and more about extortion from Canada. There is not rationalization with this as the facts are clearly evident”

    I realize that this is a very legitimate grievance. This is why I am not, in principle, a nationalist separatist. I believe that Quebec can proudly assert its differences within a united Canada all while being a positive influence. I am embarrassed by our tantrum-throwing political reputation even more than you do because said behavior actually undermines us more than it gets us what we genuinely need. The looming specter of separatism might be good theatrics to get what we need short-term, but I would much rather we use long-term, sound business development strategies to build our benefit instead.


    “Quebec, being so distinct, should be their own nation. In this fashion the province can chart their own destiny with even harsher language laws upholding the language factor at the expense of minorities.”

    I find it pompous that the official line is “the francophones and allophones need to go to French school because in Quebec, it happens in French”. I would prefer a much gentler coaxing/incentivizing into the French system, but leave the choice up to the parents/kids. Of course, the nationalists are terrified by this because of the existential threat posed by each individual kid that won’t assimilate into French. The sad thing about our systems in Quebec is that neither language group’s school system truly makes you functional in the other’s language.

    All the more reason to have forced bilingual schools throughout the country. What’s wrong with having Canada be functionally bilingual from sea to sea? I’m not saying you need to be “less English-speaking” or “less French-speaking”, but I think such a measure would go a long way to erode the “two solitudes” idea. A little hump won’t hurt once we’ve gotten over it.

    Speaking of hump, I know full well that attack mutt Pierre Curzi says it’s not enough to teach immigrants French, but to even more aggressively force them into francophone Quebec culture, since being fluent or even accentless in French apparently allows you too much proximity (and opportunity to identify) to anglo North American culture. I wonder how easily we can sell our produce and hydroelectricity when we build a Great Wall around this province, but that’s the kind of insanity that even normal Quebecers (the majority, I’d speculate) have to put up with. It is and always has been the loudmouth idiots who have practiced the extortion tactics and whiny pressure tantrums that we’ve become famous for. It’s also no accident that the most vehement support comes from our artsy community, which successfully pulls at the heartstrings of our people by consistently romanticizing the dream of outdated 60’s-style nationalism.

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  65. From the milder PQ, right up to the FLQ, the modus operandi is to be the mouse that roars. Taking its cues from history, if the RoC had any sense, it would set such rodents in a trap once and for all. Alternatively, Ottawa ought to delineate exactly how bankrupt we would be, as well as go to painstaking detail on how the disengagement process would work. Army, territory, borders, Natives, resources, debt, changeover period, economy, citizenship, ALL of that needs to be worked out, clarified, and blasted at us through all official media outlets. Let us know EXACTLY what we’re voting for BEFORE we crawl into the lobster trap. Many soft-separatists don’t vote OUI because they don’t like the idea of giving the Quebec government bargaining power before the fact. The Clarity Act went over badly in this province because it was the first time Ottawa had the chutzpah to tell the National Assembly that it doesn’t set all the terms of negotiation in advance. More of this is needed, if only to properly inform all of us on what we’re buying before we hand over our credit card. There’s a reason the Constitution is at the very topmost piece of legislation in this country and it’s high time everyone understood how to operate within it.


    “Where else in the dominion of Canada are there laws restricting commercial signs or restricting education.”

    First of all, there has actually been no “Dominion of Canada” since 1982. We’re now just “Canada”. But to answer your question, Sault Ste Marie, Ontario tried in the early 90’s and was not the only one. Former Anglo-rights crusader Howard Galganov is now stirring up happiness in Russell Township, just across the QC/ON border, over their bilingual signage policy. Clearly, Mario Beaulieu and his ilk have an evil anglo twin.


    “Canada as a country would be far better without the negative influence of Quebec.”

    Canada as a country would be far better without people who believe Quebec can’t play a positive exemplary role. (see that? I’m *already* including francophones and anglophones!)


    “There will be no more deals allowing the nation state (province) of Quebec to be elevated above the status of the other provinces of Canada. Even Trudeau saw the fallacy of this concept”

    Alas, if only we had listened. But our buddy Harper had a different strategy altogether.

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  66. Mississauga Guy retorted...

    "this states the case for a federal political party that represents Anglophones first EVERYWHERE"

    I'd settle for a party that supports equal
    rights. Individual right, as group rights are
    'mob rule' by another name. To paraphase ol'
    Bill - A turd, by another name, smells just as
    bad.

    DD

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  67. To Anon. Sept. 24 at 9:24 PM:
    "Par ailleurs, il faudra aussi travailler sur le fléau que constituent les mariages mixtes entre franco et anglo. En effet, alors que la proportion de couples mixtes était de 25 % en 1971, elle était rendue à 46 % en 2006 !!! Ce qui signifie que près d'un anglophone sur deux qui vit en couple a un conjoint francophone !!! Ce qui signifie également qu'un francophone ayant un enfant avec un anglophone participe activement à l'assimilation de son peuple, en mettant au monde de tels monstres bilingues et biculturels !!!"

    This could just as easily have come out of the mouth of a Nazi Party official in Germany during the 1930's and 40's. One must ensure that the race maintains its purity!

    To Anon.(Dartagnan) Sept. 24 at 1:02 PM:
    "Ce sont nos soldats qui étaient au front pendant que les pissous d'anglos se cachaient dans les bois durant la deuxième guerre mondiale."

    Are you on drugs? In both the First and Second World Wars Anglophone Canadians signed up in droves across the entire country. Some Quebecois volunteered but it is a well known fact that many of them did everything possible to avoid fighting...many fled to the woods. In both wars it was the Quebecois alone who were opposed to Conscription. They held demonstrations against it.

    I own a cabin near a small village in the Outaouais region of Quebec, northwest of Montreal. I fish a lake there that has caves along one shoreline. An aquaintance of mine who lives in the area informed me that Francophones hid in those caves during both wars.

    There is no example of Anglos hiding anywhere at any time during both wars.

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  68. "First of all, there has actually been no “Dominion of Canada” since 1982. We’re now just “Canada”.

    Well, guess I am just showing my age. You are right about this. On your critique of Galganov and Brisson, they are just reinforcing indivual rights to display a sign in whatever language you wish. You find that without merit? If so, tbe perhaps your pseudonym on this blog is a fitting description.


    "Canada as a country would be far better without people who believe Quebec can’t play a positive exemplary role. (see that? I’m *already* including francophones and anglophones!)"

    Has Quebec shown any positive exemplary role to date? What are people to believe in...future goodwill from a province which is a continual whiner and user of other peoples money? When will this stop and when will Quebec start, as you say, contributing?

    Bilingual cote de cote. Not a problem for me. Likely a good thing. Is it going to happen, not likely. French is quite frankly a small linguistic component of Nort America. Chances are not likely that good. 40 years of the OLA have changed nothing. People send their kids outside of Quebec to french immersion to either, increase their childrens perspectives for job employment in the federal civil service or for the better pre and after school programs which are subsidized by anglo parents whose children do not receive he same. The parents could care less about the french language or culture as it is simply a means to an end. Similar if you will to an engineer who must learn calculus to get his degree, and then, forgets how to differentiate or integrate within a short time as it really is someththing that is required. Canada is not a bilingual country and never will liekly be one. The french learn english in Quebec as it greatly improves their chances of successful careers both in Quebec and outside of Quebec. You ever hear of an anglo from Calgary wanting to learn french so they could get a job in Quebec. Could be, but I doubt it.

    "But our buddy Harper had a different strategy altogether."

    Perhaps you could enlighten me on your thoughts as to Harpers stragies. Most politicians have only one primary strategy and that is too remain in power so they can collect their pensions.

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  69. Apparatchik, c'est un plaisir de vous lire, même si je ne partage pas votre opinion.

    «What’s wrong with having Canada be functionally bilingual from sea to sea? I’m not saying you need to be “less English-speaking” or “less French-speaking”, but I think such a measure would go a long way to erode the “two solitudes” idea. A little hump won’t hurt once we’ve gotten over it.»

    Le rapport de force est trop inégal, il n'y a pas de parité démographique et encore moins culturelle entre l'anglais et le français au Canada pour promouvoir ce bilinguisme.

    Si nous étions Polonais et les Canadiens, des Russes, et que nos livres scolaires étaient en anglais, tout comme le sont les films d'Hollywood, je comprendrais qu'entre deux nations, on encourage un certain bilinguisme, une troisième langue internationale jouant le rôle d'arbitre, mais comme l'anglais est la langue des sciences, la langue du commerce ET la langue de la majorité canadienne, tout bilinguisme (collectif, à ne pas confondre avec le bilinguisme d'un individu) dans le contexte d'un peuple assujetti à un autre peuple majoritaire est un état intermédiaire entre le moment où la minorité parlait sa langue et le moment où elle est finalement assimilée à la langue de la majorité.

    Je connais une «franco-ontarienne» pour qui être franco, c'est un «spirit», elle parle un français très approximatif et ne comprend pas le mien.

    Les Canadiens vont préférer simplifier et passer à l'anglais puisque nous le comprenons de toute façon.

    Pourquoi ne pas faire la même chose au Québec? Que les francophones comprennent l'anglais pour leur propre intérêt (les voyage, la lecture, la culture) c'est une chose, mais que le Québec veille à franciser un maximum ses immigrants, je ne vois pas le problème.

    Vous avez fait référence à la conquête en expliquant que nous parlons toujours français, comment conciliez-vous que nous soyons devenus minoritaires si ce ne sont justement pas des politiques linguistiques qui nous ont affaiblis?


    Je réitère que c'est un plaisir de vous lire.

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  70. Here are twenty reasons not to ever vote for the Bloc Québécois (à jamais! ), n'importe quel coté linguistique vous tombez au Québec
    http://www.sqlservercentral.com/blogs/hugo/archive/2010/09/30/when-the-bloc-qu-233-b-233-cois-is-a-nuisance-for-quebeckers-interests-the-top-20-countdown.aspx ( republished from l'original sur Liberal.ca )
    J'ai traduit ces textes en anglais pour mon ami Philippe Allard. Phil is a brave guy, just like notre cher Martin Patriquin :)

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  71. Il serait plus avantageux pour les Anglophones cher Hugo d'apprendre le français plutôt que de toujours vous plaindre,s'apitoyer sur votre sort.

    --- Lorsque cela ne fonctionne pas "vous" lancez au visage de toute la nation française du Québec, des insultes et par la suite vous leur dites qu'ils sont des "racistes" ! tandis que vous tenter nous enlever notre droit d'utiliser notre langue natale. Cette langue se défénie comme " le premier moyen d'expression acquis pendant l'enfance, par lequel l'enfant se socialise - elle est l'expression d'une identité ", la langue maternelle étant principalement "inscrite sous le signe d'une fidélité à une tradition particulière, et est l'expression d'une culture ".

    Vous ne pouvez intervenir et changer le monde en tentant de l'ébranler, de le fustigier, de l'extradier, de le démembrer, le torturer, l'obséder, le tourmenter, le tenailler ou le violenter. Allez et cessez de vous plaindre ou apprenez notre langue et taisez-vous !!!!

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