Tuesday, August 16, 2011

Separtists Descend Into Fantasy World

BQ election loss brutal for faithful
To most pundits and casual observers as well, the May 2, federal election and the resulting collapse of the Bloc Quebecois, signalled that Quebec voters were tired of being represented by unproductive separatists in Ottawa or were exasperated with the constant political obsession with a referendum and a sovereignty project that is clearly unrealizable, a perceived waste of effort and political capital (in the voter's mind.)

This second conclusion may be the most dangerous development for separatist hard-liners.
Many of those who would vote 'YES' in a referendum signalled that they have reached the pragmatic conclusion that given no chance of winning, they'd rather forgo the humiliation of another painful defeat.

Have these 'soft' separatists given up altogether or have they decided to forgo sovereignty for now and perhaps revisit the option at a later date?
Separatist militants are desperately hoping for the latter, because accepting that Quebeckers have given up on sovereignty is absolutely unthinkable.

It's taken the hardliners about three months to get over the initial shock of the election debacle and the resulting trauma, a period in wherein hardliners vented their anger rather nastily, describing those Quebec voters who opted for the Ndp as lazy, ignorant and politically naive betrayers.

The anger-filled columns in vigile.net and on other separatist websites all shared a common theme.
Rage, scorn and disbelief, remindful of the emotions that one can expect when dumped rather brutally and unexpectedly, by a longtime partner.
These hate-filled missives of the frustrated separatist been-done-wrongs, were actually fun reads. The acerbic prose dripping with angst, paints a vivid picture not of the subjects, but rather writers. Here's a good example{Fr}.

Judging by what's being published now, it appears that most of these separatist have gotten over the initial shock and disbelief. They've moved on from the first initial stages of grief, Denial and Anger (according to the Kubler-Ross description of the 5 stages of grief,)  and now firmly reside in the third stage, Bargaining.

If only we do this........things will change. Yup, bargaining.

Trying desperately to come up with a solution to revive a sovereignty project on life-support, militants have descended into unreality, lurching from one desperate solution to another, turning on each other in the process.

To a federalist like myself, watching the movement fracture, with militants ripping and tearing at each other's throats, is the very definition of schadenfreude.


Pauline Marois. Haughtiness or preparing for the guillotine?
For the Parti Quebecois, times are decidedly tough, with desertions by hardliners all the more painful as those who leave embark on a scorched earth campaign towards the party.
This coupled with the fiercest of attacks by party militants, who believe that the party has lost its relevancy and that the leader, Pauline Marois, has betrayed them, is placing the party at risk, firmly betwixt a rock and a hard place.

But what's a girl to do?

If Pauline embarks on the suicidal hardline path that militants demand, the party will, come next election, in all likelihood, suffer the same fate that its federal counterpart suffered.
That possibility is very real, as even hard line journalist Josee Legault admits. Link{Fr}    Alternate link{Fr}

If the PQ maintains its current course, waiting for those mythical 'winning conditions' it risks losing more and more of it's radical wing.
The party is already bleeding members, hardliners who believe that if you're going to lose, you may as well stand on your principles.  Hard to argue with that, I suppose.
For the Parti Quebecois, the choice it faces in determining it's future course (militancy versus pragmatism) is decidedly a lose/lose situation, maddeningly reminiscent of Sophie's Choice

And so a new debate (Bargaining) is taking place among Quebec sovereigntists, one that has come to the rather startling consensus that the independence movement has failed because it is not radical enough!
I'm not kidding or making it up!
Jean-Martin Aussant, leading the charge!

Yup, these sovereigntists have concluded that they need to be more militant in order to succeed!

In other words, if nobody wants to buy your apples, you've got to raise the price to be successful!

Jean-Martin Aussant, one those deserter MPs from the Parti Quebecois is in the process of creating a new independence party- OPTION QUEBEC, which can best be described as the PQ on steroids.

New Movement + new flag = same old story.
Yesterday, Seventy-seven sovereigntist militants, signed a manifesto which was published online, entitled  "Breaking the Impasse," another long-winded denunciation of the Parti Quebecois, Canada and federalism. Ho-Hum, not a particularly big deal.

Nowhere in the document does it propose how a new party will be successful pedalling what has been so forcefully rejected by the public already.

It's like adding more curry to a dish and returning it to a customer who previously sent it back to the kitchen because it was too spicy.

There is only one word to describe this new separatist initiative- FANTASY.

Me, I'm okay with all this.

Another separatist party will split the sovereignist vote into three instead of two and if they are hell-bent to embark on another self-destructive journey of discovery, far be it for me to complain.

All this won't save Jean Charest or the Liberal party, but it will insure a majority government for Francois Legault and his centrist party which has proposed to ignore the separatist question.

All in all, that's about the best we Anglos can hope for...

115 comments:

  1. I guess I'm feeling a little "schadenfreudian" myself these days. I can't state I'm not enjoying the pain of the separatists because I so am!

    Whatever. I've reached that point of indifference because I don't believe Quebec deserves to be a part of our confederation anymore. They have gotten far too much in the way of spoils (i.e., equalization and other federal handouts far exceeding what they put into the federal coffers) for which they express ZERO gratitude.

    The PLQ youth wing was looking for Quebec's recognition as a nation recently, and Charest stated he'd like to see this recognition himself. I say that's perfectly fine, but Quebec has to separate from Canada for that to be recognized, at least by yours truly.

    Quebec is that middle child in the family that seems to perceive living in a stacked deck. The firstborn is special being the first child of a couple, the baby is special because that's the baby of the family forever, but the middler? PUH-LEEZE! The middler's special status as the baby is gone when the baby is born. WAAAHHHHH!

    Quebec is the middle child constantly making the appropriate noises to be heard. I've had enough, and like I said, Quebec has to separate before I'll have any chance of recognizing it as a nation.

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  2. Meh...wathever you say mister Sauga, Ottawa want that Quebec stay inside the federation at all cost.

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  3. Sad fairy tale with no happy ending. Especially for those hopeless young individuals (see above). Completely hopeless.

    Quebec does not exist. It has never existed: it's just a crooked piece of land, a special territory, where history decided to confine kébékuo' and separate them from the real world. Anyway, history always takes care of things which deserve to be erased...

    WESTALLOPHONE++

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  4. Le jour ou il n'y aura plus de parti souverainiste au Québec,c'est qu'il n'y aura plus de Québécois.
    Alors,deux partis souverainistes,c'est très bon signe.N'oubliez pas que François Legault aussi est un séparatiste,de droite mais un séparatiste.

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  5. I'm pretty sure this will all end in partition.

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  6. This can only end in three ways.. 1) assimilation of French Canadians, 2) assimilation of English Canadaians or 3) Bloodshed

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  7. Ok there Captain apocalypse. How about 1) Assimilation of francos. 2) Assimilation of anglos. 3) Full separation. 4) Sovereignty-association (no thank you). 5) Partitioning. The only way it will end in bloodshed is when the few hundred retards on each side who are actually reatarded enough to resort to violence will have it out in the streets and god-willing will wipe each other out.

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  8. For once, I will comment in french

    Ça va faire le calisse de niaisage.

    On est même pas capables d'avoir des routes, des écoles, des garderies, des hopitaux et des infrastructures qui ont de l'allure. Pouvez-vous me sacrer patience avec la maudite souveraineté. Déjà un parti qui nous donnait droit a sa diarrhée verbale a ce sujet, Imaginez 3 !

    On devrait commencer par éliminer les syndicats dans la fonction publique, faire le ménage du fonctionnariat et surtout surtout, cesser de se peinturer dans un coin "parce qu'on veut des affaires en français". On s'en calisse du français, on veut VIVRE et avoir un niveau de vie qui a de l'allure. En avoir pour notre argent par rapport a l'impôt qu'on paie serait pas un luxe.

    Tout cette parlementerie de clown nous fais gaspiller temps, argent et ressources. On est pas mieux que personne ici, même qu'en réalité, on fait dur en tabouère des fois. Faut que l'attitudes change, cessons de nous voir mieux que le reste du canada, parce qu'en réalité, le Quebec, c'est le gouffre de l'amérique du nord.

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  9. "On s'en calisse du français, on veut VIVRE"

    Difficile de déscendre aussi bas.

    Niveau de fierté : Nul.

    Bravo la carpette,jamais pensé a aller vivre en ontario ou le niveau de chômage est plus élevé qu'au Québec.Tu n'aurais plus a te battre avec ton identité...Moofo.Laisse donc sortir le colon qui t'étouffe et va rejoindre les tiens ;).Disons que tu viens de faire un pas dans la bonne direction.

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  10. "On s'en calisse du français, on veut VIVRE et avoir un niveau de vie qui a de l'allure."

    I agree, but you can't just toss a culture out the window neither. A healthy medium needs to be found. I don't know if that's what you were insinuating but if you weren't I apologize. Other than that your post is spot on.

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  11. "I agree, but you can't just toss a culture out the window neither."

    Wow!Faut le faire,un anglo te demande même d'avoir un peu de retenu...Relève toi Moofo un genou au sol,ça suffira.Totalement hallucinant

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  12. Just do us all favour and get lost, separate, scram…we are sick and tired of you racist, anti-English language bigots period.

    Just remember a couple of things scum bags. You will leave with about a third of the province. That’s right; you will have to deal with the natives and many other groups. Not only that but you will have to pay your share of the national debt, about 24% of it scum bags.

    Take your tiny province, ya remember how small it was in 1867, that’s all you get language Nazis. Now get lost scum.

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  13. (Part 1)

    I think respect for Quebecois culture will gain ALLOT of perspective as we inch closer and closer to a Canada where whites are no longer a majority, which will supposedly be around 2040. At that point the cultural face of Canada will alter and change and heritage Canadians will yearn out of nostalgia for their old Canada back. Only then will anglo-Canadians truly feel what the Quebecois are feeling. Not that I agree with seperatism, but I respect their sense of cultural loss.

    I think Quebec is suffering from a severe case of political correctness (a concept that needs to be lessened or completely removed in my opinion) in which ANY attempt whatsoever to protect Quebec's dominant culture, whether it be seperatist or not, is instantly reviled as being racist, which I think is completely retarded. Mass imigration and forced multiculturalism seems to be adored by many anglos based on the fact that it dilutes the seperatist vote. But is that right? Once Quebec is diluted enough it won't take long for our culture to be perceived as threatened and then we'll be in a whole new mess. Don't believe me? Look at Europe.

    Now before I get called a racist, trust me I'm not. All I'm stating is that the culture will change a good deal and nobody can convince me otherwise. I like the Canadian (English and French) cultures that were established by our forefathers. Heck they built it into the nation that every immigrant would love to live in today, so why alter it with forced multiculturalism?

    Now I understand that this land was stolen from the natives. I understand and respect that, but here's three things that I believe the PC argument of "Natives being here before us so who are we to say anything" is starting to lose its relevance a tad: 1) What would you suggest? That we leave? There aren't enough Natives to inhabit the territory properly anyhow. We're here now. We have an established nation with an established culture so let's strengthen it and cut ourselves a break from all the white guilt 2) Isn't the fact that we built a nation out of nothing to become one of the top peace-keeping nations on Earth gain us any credit? It's not like our ancestors took the land and plunged into endless civil wars and genocide and war on all surounding countries for the rest of history. 3) Doesn't the fact that our ancestors fought and died in two world wars to protect freedom and our land gain us any credit at all?

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  14. (Part 2)

    Now if you're sitting there saying multiculturalism won't affect classic Canadian culture then you're just delusional. There's no way you can honnestly tell me that our cultural face of today wouldn't be different if mass post-60s immigration hadn't taken place. Of course it would. And now if you're thinking: "what's wrong with that?" well I'll tell you. Let's take India as an example. Now I don't hate Indians in fact half of my best friends growing up were of Indian descent. But they do bring their culture with them right (which is their evey right as human beings especially if it's being offered by the governement)? But there already is a place with an Indian culture. It's called India. And I would do anything I can to speak out agaisnt anything that would threaten the natural evolution of the culture of India and it's people. Now does classic Canadian (french and english) culture not deserve that right? To progress naturally without cultural interference?

    I know I'm not racist, I just believe cultures belong in their respective parts of the world. If an Arab wanted to move here and completely submerge himself into classic Canadian culture, then he's welcome to live as an equal to enjoy all the benfits of living in Canada that I enjoy, and that goes for any race. When in Rome, do as the Romans do and you'll be fine.

    For a country to be strong, there has to be national untiy, and by bringing in foreign cultures and mindsets that are told they don't need to bother assimilating, we end up with a nation with several national unities which is detrimental to social cohesion. Not because we're racist. Far from it. It's just human nature to want to hang with people who are like yourself.

    This is what I believe the soft sovereignists feel but are too afraid and paralyzed by political correctness to speak out agaisnt it.

    If you truly think about it with an open mind, it isn't racism. Political correctness needs to go and multiculturalism with a significant ethnic population is a failure (again, look at Europe).

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  15. “N'oubliez pas que François Legault aussi est un séparatiste,de droite mais un séparatiste.”

    You know, it’s unfortunate but in Quebec a principled separatist in tune with reality is probably the lesser evil. Because the other two choices are total crap, i.e. 1: crazed seppies completely disconnected from reality (e.g. Beaudoin, Curzi), and 2: quote-unquote “federalists”, who see Canada solely as a bank teller, and don’t hesitate to invoke the threat of separation to get more goodies (e.g. Charest, Pratte). I believe the latter ones are called “nationalists-federalists”, but I prefer my term - “opportunists-extortionists”.

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  16. "You know, it’s unfortunate but in Quebec a principled separatist in tune with reality is probably the lesser evil. Because the other two choices are total crap, i.e. 1: crazed seppies completely disconnected from reality (e.g. Beaudoin, Curzi), and 2: quote-unquote “federalists”, who see Canada solely as a bank teller, and don’t hesitate to invoke the threat of separation to get more goodies (e.g. Charest, Pratte). I believe the latter ones are called “nationalists-federalists”, but I prefer my term - “opportunists-extortionists”"

    This sentiment is why I think Quebec needs it's own country. I know many Quebecois who don't want to separate but don't consider themselves Canadian. While this sounds nice because they aren't separatist it harms national unity. Honnestly a non-seperatist Quebecois who doesn't consider themself Canadian can be somewhat viewed as a coward and/or hypocrit, because really, who are they helping? And then of course there's the likes of Charest who only want to be Canadian out of money and power lust.

    My friends, separation is the only answer anymore. We know the movement won't go away and it's been fluctuating around that critical 40% level of support for 40 years or so. Quebec should have separated in the 70s or the 1980 referendum if it wanted to, because now the geo-political situation has complicated quite a bit with multiculturalism and mass immigration, making it impossible for that large minority to attain independance, but making things miserable for the Canadian government possible. The solution? Partition. Ireland did it. Pakistan did it. We're next I'm sure.

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  17. Partition is not a solution as there would be too few parts of Quebec wiling to participate in Canada. It's surrealistic as Montreal would become a tiny island in a separatist ocean. It would be a real "Mont-" surrounded by a swamp.
    Assimilation is not a solution either as it means destroying something by denying its quality.
    Bloodshed is an idiotic solution: you don't solve conflicts with weapons or devices to destroy.
    Separation is another idiotic Press9-style solution as Canada is one AND only one, and some provinces would be cut off with Canada in case of a separated Quebec (i.g. New Brunswick and Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island).
    No solutions seem to be coming up other than staying in Canada and actively participating in its life. Actually, we don't need a solution because there is not a real problem. Quebec is not a real problem: on the contrary, it's a small, harmless disturbance, tamable in the long term.

    WESTALLOPHONE++

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  18. Well first of all Partiton reflects the will of the people and the island of Montreal isn't the only area that would prefer to remain Canadian. The South shore and the Eatsern townships have huge pockets of federalist support.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Quebecref.PNG/400px-Quebecref.PNG

    Assuming partiton results would be similar to this, these results could easily be reworked into a manageable border.

    Personally I think partition might one day be suggested by seperatists themselves. If seperatist support continues to gravitate around 40% or lower, they know they'll never be able to separate the way they want to. At some point they'll just take what they can get.

    Sorry to burst the head in the sand mentaily but yeah there is a problem with Quebec/Canada relations. It's still quite daunting. Often times, people who live in Montreal seem to assume that the area's current state is an accurate depiction of all of Quebec's opinion on Canada. Trust me, it isn't.

    And Quebec isn't a real problem? Huge debt, crumbling infrastructure, and threat of separation isn't a big problem? None of these problems can be settled untill we settle our social issues. We need everyone on board paddling in the same direction. We like to think we can concentrate on education and debt and put the national question on the backburner, but the reality of it is that two different mindsets are trying to fix the same problem with respect to their own mindset. So we're getting nowhere. I mean just look at the new sovereignist party that just popped up. Hell, I don't even think a failed third referendum would put the issue to rest. The issue isn't going away. We need to address it now.

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  19. Your comment makes sense, Jason.
    But, suppose 40% or lower of separatists will get what they want through partition of Quebec, how would the relations between them and the the rest of Quebec be? Strained? Indifferent? Quite? Tell me.
    I still think Montreal should separate from Quebec and not the other way around.

    WESTALLOPHONE++

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  20. Separatists will NEVER let Montreal separate from Quebec. Ditto for West Island towns , ... there's too much money to lose.

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  21. "But, suppose 40% or lower of separatists will get what they want through partition of Quebec, how would the relations between them and the the rest of Quebec be? Strained? Indifferent? Quite? Tell me."

    A fair question indeed. There will be turmoil no doubt. No divorce is pleasant. But it needs to happen. Both cultures feel mutually strangled and this is impeding social and economic progress in my opinion.

    Now when you say relations towards the rest of Quebec, do you mean Quebec as in the newly partitioned one or the old Quebec as a whole. To the latter I would say it doesn't really matter because if you aren't happy all you have to do is move to an area that reflects your end of the spectrum and thusly pro-fed and pro-sep wouldn't have to deal with each other anymore.

    Now if you mean within their newly partitioned country of Quebec I don't think there would be problems. If anything there would be celebrations I think.

    But yeah Republic of Quebec and the "new province of montreal?" (personally I'd call it Hochelaga) relations would likely be strained. But hey, once people have what they finally want they get over things pretty quickly.

    But then again this is all speculation on my part. Who knows what would happen. I'm just making an educated guess based on the attitudes of those around me and in the political world.

    But I do think if a Canadian politician were to come out today and say let's hold a partition referendum of Quebec explaining exactly what that meant, more people than you'd think would deem it a fair solution and exclaim "Oh my God yes! Let's end this once and for all please!". And if the government of Quebec truly wants to build a nation based on respecting the will of the people, they'd have no choice but to go along, lest they be labelled as hypocrits.

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  22. "Separatists will NEVER let Montreal separate from Quebec"

    The harlinders, no. But I'm sure a huge portion of Quebec's population (anglos and francos included) aren't even aware the concept of partition exists. I've talked about it with about 10 to 15 of my friends (francos and anglos), who are all reasonably aware of what's going on in politics, and only 1 of them new what it was. Once it's explained to them, the main reaction I got was "yeah that makes sense".

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  23. "We know the movement won't go away and it's been fluctuating around that critical 40% level of support for 40 years or so."

    Jason, the 40% figure is manufactured.

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  24. "Jason, the 40% figure is manufactured"

    Interesting. Why do you think so?

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  25. Pourquoi pas des murs comme jadis Berlin ou Israel? Ou encore comme celui entre les É-U et le Mexique?

    Une telle proposition entraînerait forcément le Québec dans des conflits pas mal plus graves qu'au cours des années 70,sans compter les décennies de guerres juridiques et constitutionnelles.

    Je ne savais pas que les anglos étaient désespérés a ce point.Tant mieux si ce fantasme calme vos souffrances.

    Le titre du jour aurait pu être:

    "Federalists Descend Into Fantasy World"

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  26. I see there are english people who are just as radical as irrational as the hardcore separatists...

    René Lévesque's original idea of sovereignty was great - aside from receiving money from richer provinces, which province wouldn't want to be master of their own destiny?

    Unfortunately, racist and xenophobic people have appropriated this idea to serve their own cause.
    People like Jacques Parizeau and Pierre Curzi, all the extremists who have transformed it into a language debate.

    A large percentage of "seperatists" are simply french people with very little education and culture who feel threatened by anyone different, and especially by the english people who surround them. There's a inferiority complex for the french-only people; these people cannot communicate outside the province after all.

    I guess if as a kid, and your parents constantly tell you how evil the english are, and you never leave your small village to find out for yourself, you might just believe it.

    And if you actually take the time to ask separatists why they want to leave canada, you'll find that a large percentage of them can't even come up with a valid reason, and you'll most likely hear stories about how the "mean english people" are trying to exploit us.

    The good news is that each generation is a bit smarter and much more informed than the last, and so the sovereignty movement is slowly dying away.

    Hopefully one day, as a Quebec citizen, I'll be able to chose the language I send my kids to school in.

    For the English Canadians: please remember that we're not all named Jean-Guy and we're not all the same. In fact, us "no" people are the majority, which has been proven by two referendums and reaffirmed by the latest federal election results.

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  27. The federal government is becoming quite indifferent to the separatist threat these days now that Quebec is losing on a daily basis any political clout they might have had. The parable of the "boy who cried wolf" is never more evident than with the nation state of Quebec and their threat of separation. Quite apparent with renaming the Canadian Forces back to the "Royal" Canadian Navy and Air Force. Imagine that. You actually think the Harper government would have done this if there was any threat from the separatists?; knowing it would infuriate a great number of Quebecois. Check out Le Devoir and the comments about this subject. Not on your life. As a matter of fact the condescending stupid Liberal government did this to remove Royal from the forces to appease the Quebecois nationalist sentiment, who hate anything anglo.

    Imagine now...all those Quebecois proud military who are now flying obvious "anglo" colours. Wow, must be hard to swallow for them to be employed by The "ROYAL" Candian Navy or Air Force.....Hilarious to see the embarassment and perceived insult!!

    Of course, hasn't it been that way all along. I mean, didn't the Anglos win on the Plains of Abraham.

    Harper and Co. no longer gives a shit about Quebec as this example quite aptly illustrates.

    And, for that matter, nor does the ROC.

    Quebec is becoming irrelevant to the Country as a whole as financial dynamics move to other regions and Quebec's importance diminishes, as does the folk language and culture they attempt in vain to keep alive.



    Harper and Company

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  28. "Hopefully one day, as a Quebec citizen, I'll be able to chose the language I send my kids to school in."

    Je ne crois pas que se soit pour l'an prochain...You evil anglo.Je ne sais quel age vous avez mais je ne compterais pas trop la d'sus ;)

    "Federalists Descend Into Fantasy World"

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  29. Is partition of Quebec even possible from a legal point of view? Quebec has been existing as a state prior to Canada. But the West Island? Montreal? Cities have no constitutionnal powers. I think it's a moot point.

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  30. As to why the figure is manufactured, it's because this percentage suits Quebec interests best. It is a high enough figure to keep the RoC on its toes, but it's also at a level that keeps Quebec safely where it wants to be - confederated with the other provinces that can be made a use of. The percentage of 40 is what Quebec elites desire.

    As to how to achieve it, the polling agencies work closely with governments and can easily influence public opinion. The right questions are asked, and the inconvenient questions are omitted. Also, most questions are asked in a leading way. In addition, Quebec population knows instinctively that keeping the 40% is in their interests. So any poll that registers a low support for separation is followed by another poll, in which someone who said No in the previous poll will say yes in the next poll to bring the percentage back up. Th inverse is also true. Take a poll that registers a 50% approval for separation, the next one will come out with a support that went back down to 40% or less.

    Quebec media (as any establishment media) play a role too in shaping public opinion the way the govt wants it. So whenever support for separation withers, all these pundits and commentators come out of the woodwork to bash the RoC. But whenever the support for separation goes up too much, the same pundits are back to endorse the RoC. I've seen this happen with the most prominent Quebec commentators, like Martineau, Lagacé, and Pratte. These people float back and forth just to ensure that sovereignty gets a respectable but not too high support.

    Generally, you can tell when people want a country. In the case of Quebec, however, it looks like a major scam. At least at this point in time, it does.

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  31. "You actually think the Harper government would have done this if there was any threat from the separatists?"

    Que faites-vous du royal 22 ème régiment de Val-Cartier?

    Normand Lester sort de ce corps! (chronique d'hier a l'émission de Benoit Dutrizac).

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  32. "As to how to achieve it, the polling agencies work closely with governments and can easily influence public opinion..."

    Adski vous n'êtes plus en Pologne,arrêtez avec vos théories de complots.Êtes-vous parano ou quoi?
    Les agences d'opinions publiques sont totalement indépendantes du pouvoir.Si ce n'était pas le cas,Charest batterait des records de popularité.

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  33. @Anonymous

    "Harper and Co. no longer gives a shit about Quebec as this example quite aptly illustrates. And, for that matter, nor does the ROC."

    As a Quebecer (i suppose), I can hardly see how you can be joyful about such a fact. Pont Champlain bridge anyone?

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  34. "Que faites-vous du royal 22 ème régiment de Val-Cartier?"

    Servir mon pays (le canada) et de la reine (la famille royale du Grand-Bretagne) . Je suppose. :)

    Et vous. Que faites-vous?

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  35. "As a Quebecer (i suppose), I can hardly see how you can be joyful about such a fact. Pont Champlain bridge anyone?"

    Well, why the hell should he give a shit about Quebec. Wasn't it Quebec in 2008 who kicked him in the teeth over the cuts to funding to culture after he increased equalization to Quebec (nearly doubled) and also offered up a one time payment to Quebec of 700 million. Grow up.

    Not sure about Pont Champlain but with the Mercier, the federal side (south shore) has been reinforced quite adequately. The side which is Transport Quebec's responsibility is the one with all the problems of no maintenance. Parlez vous avec M. Charest avec ca.

    Tentez encore , mon patriote du Quebec.

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  36. "Et vous. Que faites-vous?"

    C'est ce que je disais,rien de nouveau avec le mot "royal".

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  37. it will end in a civil war.

    Mark my words.

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  38. "There's a inferiority complex for the french-only people..."

    Si nous parlions du complexe d'infériorité des canadians face aux Américains?

    Intéressant n'est-pas?

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  39. "Si nous parlions du complexe d'infériorité des canadians face aux Américains?"

    C'est bien possible, mais je n'y crois pas. Notre pays est beaucoup mieux que les États Unis, surtout depuis George W. Bush...

    Je ne voudrais pas être un américain.

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  40. "it will end in a civil war.

    Mark my words. "

    Very much doubt it. The French have never been known for their ferocity. :) La Francais= la langue d'amour, n'est pas?

    ReplyDelete
  41. @ Anonymous

    I've got my mind clear enough to know why Harper shouldn't give a F*ck about Quebec. I was solely wondering by which mental contortion one as a Quebecer could be glad of such a state of affairs.

    Champlain bridge is the federal's own.

    ReplyDelete
  42. "it will end in a civil war.

    Mark my words."

    With slaves, Lincoln and stuff?

    ReplyDelete
  43. Here's a partition idea

    http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg192/stevesanterre/?action=view&current=179651_10150381980520790_853235789_17020303_982243_n.jpg

    Follow me on Twitter @stevesanterre

    ReplyDelete
  44. Old Sandy just can't resist commenting on the "how will it end" scenarios under discussion, above.

    You lucky space cadets. I will now reveal the future: It will NOT end. The federation will stay united. Franco Quebecers will not be assimilated. There will continue to be an urban non francophone minority in Quebec. Montreal will remain a dynamic city where cultures meet and work together. There will be minor adjustments to the federal/provincial power split, as necessary. And, I regret to advise, Jacques Parizeau, Bernard Landry and Gilles Duceppe and their respective grandchildren will all meet their inevitable deaths, as Canadian citizens.

    It is now clear that 1995 was the high water mark for the sovereignty movement. There is no present sign that it will regain any appreciable momentum. Yes, there is an impasse - but it is only in the PQ/nationalist camp. And all they can talk about is how to get more angels on the head of a pin. More division of their fading energy. Good Grief ! Crusading editor, can you imagine these folks running a country ? They say its a dream. Yes, it is - a nightmare !

    Hey - let's all meet again in 2040 and see how it turned out.

    ReplyDelete
  45. @ Jason the Montreal Anglo:

    "Doesn't the fact that our ancestors fought and died in two world wars to protect freedom and our land gain us any credit at all?"

    It was mostly Anglo-Canadians who fought and died in these wars, while many Quebecois were draft dodgers who hid in the backwoods of Quebec.

    I had an uncle who was a paratrooper in WW2. He was pissed off about so many Francophones avoiding military service, so when he returned home from the war he went around beating up as many of them as he could get his hands on.

    ReplyDelete
  46. @ Leo_Lamontagne,

    "Is partition of Quebec even possible from a legal point of view? Quebec has been existing as a state prior to Canada."

    The boundaries of Quebec were much smaller than they are today prior to the confederation of Canada in 1867. As a province within Canada, Quebec was later given huge portions of Rupert's Land. Presumably, it could lose this territory if it separates. It includes the James Bay area, where Quebec has built most of its hydro-electric facilities.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Dear Anonymous : more bad history from your poison pen. A great many franco quebecers volunteered and fought very bravely during both World Wars. Try and find out about what happened at a place called Casa Berardi in 1943, or when the Chauds bumped up against the 12 th SS near Carpiquet in 1944.

    Your distorted understanding of Canadian history is apparent to all the readers of this blog who made it out of grade 10. You will never win an argument by making up facts. The sovereignists have been doing it for years, and you can see for yourself how well that tactic has served their purpose.

    Perhaps your uninformed uncle had post traumatic stress disorder. Or more likely he was just revealing the hereditary mental infirmity of the Anonymous family.

    ReplyDelete
  48. "Try and find out about what happened at a place called Casa Berardi in 1943, or when the Chauds bumped up against the 12 th SS near Carpiquet in 1944."

    Sandy,vous êtes fort!

    "Or more likely he was just revealing the hereditary mental infirmity of the Anonymous family."

    Sandy,vous êtes drôle!

    Si ce n'était de votre position face aux souverainistes,je vous trouverais sympathique.

    ReplyDelete
  49. @Anonymous 6:14 PM

    I just found an article I had read a long time ago. To my knowledge this is the only study made on the question of the partition of Quebec:

    http://english.republiquelibre.org/Territorial_integrity_of_Quebec_in_the_event_of_the_attainment_of_sovereignty

    The conclusion is pretty clear that Quebec can't be partitioned unless the government of Quebec itself abandons territories before the independance or during the transition period.

    Highly improbable.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Leo_Lamontagne, the question of any partition is a matter for politicians and armies, not for researchers. Countries appear and disappear all the time, and it's just politics that determines what is recognized as a country and what isn't. Same with UN resolutions (including those that may apply in this instance) - they are passed, then overruled, then passed again, and in the meantime counties that are powerful enough (most notably the US) act unilaterally and violate every UN resolution they find inconvenient.

    Canada is totally divisible, and so is Quebec. The only thing Quebec would have to secure is recognition by the US, which it would get. Same for the parts of Quebec that want to split away from Qc. They'd get recognized by the US too. And your republique libre "study" (sounds more like a political spin) would be worth as much as bill 101 - i.e. an equivalent of toilet paper.

    ReplyDelete
  51. "...equivalent of toilet paper"

    Efficace comme comparaison: Le papier de toilette comme la loi 101 ont été créés pour faire disparaître la merde...Et ça fonctionne!

    ReplyDelete
  52. "Your distorted understanding of Canadian history is apparent to all the readers of this blog who made it out of grade 10. You will never win an argument by making up facts. The sovereignists have been doing it for years, and you can see for yourself how well that tactic has served their purpose."

    Ok, Then, Mr. McRetread...What about the history that is taught in Quebec? Now there is a distortion. My goodness, some still teach that Labrador is part of Quebec which we all know is simply untrue.

    ReplyDelete
  53. "The only thing Quebec would have to secure is recognition by the US..."

    ???!!!???

    Ouch!Un autre expert improvisé des sciences socio-politiques.On peut vraiment écrire n'importe quoi sur ce blogue.Les données contenues de ce lien:

    http://english.republiquelibre.org/Territorial_integrity_of_Quebec_in_the_event_of_the_attainment_of_sovereignty

    Est reconnu conforme aux règles internationales.

    Point a la ligne!

    ReplyDelete
  54. "My goodness, some still teach that Labrador is part of Quebec which we all know is simply untrue."

    Qui enseigne cette fausseté?Quelle école?Quel professeur?Des noms et des faits si possible.
    Ou c'est vous qui raconter n'importe quoi.

    ReplyDelete
  55. No, August 17, 2011 8:52 PM, in Quebec schools history is taught only from a kébékuo' perspective and its effect on Quebec.
    I know for sure (100%) that lots of students know nothing about the First and Second World War per se (causes, persons involved and so on), because both Wars are taught just taking into consideration their effects on USA, Canada AND Quebec. So basically we have illiterate students who absorb lies after lies from their indoctrination centers (=schools) without questioning anything. Not to mention how little is taught about European history and culture in Quebec. Forget of course the other huge forgotten chapter, i.e., languages...

    WESTALLOPHONE++

    ReplyDelete
  56. "in Quebec schools history is taught only from a Québécois perspective and its effect on Quebec."

    Avez-vous remarqué la dimension de notre territoire (5 x la France)?Il est tout a fait normal qu'une erreur géographique puisse survenir de temps a autre.

    ReplyDelete
  57. @8:58

    Same can be said about counties, towns, villages and regions that want to secede from an independent quebec.

    ReplyDelete
  58. "conforme aux règles internationales."

    Your règles internationales aren't worth a damn. They're only for those who aren't powerful enough to break them. And as I said, the US violates these at will, as does China, Russia, UK, France, Israel, Turkey, and many other countries...

    The Geneva Convention? Completely inapplicable on the battleground.

    The American Bill of Rights? Made a joke of by the Patriot Act.

    The Canadian/Quebec Charters of Rights? Made a joke of by Bill 101 and the OLA.

    The UN resolution on Human Rights? A useless piece of paper...human rights broken all over the world daily.

    Bill 101, already addressed.

    OLA, nothing but an expensive joke.

    Anything else, before we proceed with the partitioning of this province? If not, then let's get to business lads. Let's carve this place into pieces like a cake.

    ReplyDelete
  59. @Anonymous 9:24

    Vous ne suivez pas la conversation.Nous discutons ici du territoire.Pas des droits humains.

    Un peu de concentration s'il vous plait.

    ReplyDelete
  60. "Nous discutons ici du territoire.Pas des droits humains."

    We're discussing a general concept. Something that is agreed on today is either broken or violated tomorrow. It may concern the metaphysical (ideas, concepts, rights), and the physical (territory, land, property).

    You want to talk about territory? There are just too many examples. A land that is claimed by one state and recognized as such today, tomorrow becomes a property of another state (or gets sliced up), either through an armed conflict, or political deals with the powerful of this world.

    So let's get to business now, people. It's time to put an end to the nonsense that emanates from this province.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Why do people absolutely refuse to believe things could get violent in the event of separation and/or partition and simply scoff it off so arrogantly? Obviously the city wouldn't erupt in a straight up civil war, but people seem to forget international law doesn't mean much when faced with heated human emotions, and trust me, in the event of separation, emotions will be running high. We have riots over hockey games for God's sake. You don't think a major shift in politics and country borders would shake anything up?

    Let's say Quebec separates as a whole without partition, do you think the Cree natives who vote 95% pro-federalist will just take it on the chin if they're forced to separate from Canada, especially when they're lviing on land that was never Quebec's to begin with? You think the huge federalist population of the Greater Montreal area will just say "Oh well, I guess we're Quebecois now"? I highly doubt it. And do you think the sizeable amount of franco extremists would take it lying down if Montreal WERE partitoned? I doubt that also.

    http://www.milice.qc.ca/

    A couple hundred of these morons could easily do some damage.

    I'm not saying I want to see violence in the streets and I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't get involved, but let's be realistic here; there are enough morons in our city to cause a commotion. And by morons I mean douchy highschool drop-outs with the civility of a komodo dragon. The local high school near my house (Antoine Brossard) where my girlfriend used to attend used to have what were essentially mini race wars. Blacks vs Arabs, French vs. the English kids down the street. There were stabbings in the schoolyard on a weekly basis. These people are adults in society now. In Montreal, full-out bar brawls erupt quite regularly (I've witnessed 5 in my 7 years as a legal adult) because some dude disrespected another by looking at him the wrong way. Our current young and upcomming generation is a little more neanderthalish than we'd like to admit. Just because you're intelligent and civilized doesn't mean everyone else is. But I hope I'm wrong and that they're would be no violence.

    And for those who say separation isn't the answer, just look at this comments board. There is absolutely no respect when people debate here and it doesn't seem to be changing. I've concluded both sides of the argument are full of morons who have no idea what they're talking about and just speak out of bitterness. Even people who prefer to remain politically correct about their opinion seem to deep down feel emotionally attached to the matter; and emotion will usually trump reason my friends. I think we'd be better off apart.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Wow!Excellent.Les américains incapables de construire un véhicule sécuritaire digne de leur président!Les amerlocs nous en doivent une :)

    "http://blogues.cyberpresse.ca/hetu/2011/08/17/lautocar-quebecois-de-barack-obama/"

    ReplyDelete
  63. "You want to talk about territory? There are just too many examples. A land that is claimed by one state and recognized as such today, tomorrow becomes a property of another state (or gets sliced up), either through an armed conflict, or political deals with the powerful of this world"

    Alors il y a beaucoup plus de chances que les É-U s'emparent du canada que le canada charcute le Québec.

    ReplyDelete
  64. "Alors il y a beaucoup plus de chances que les É-U s'emparent du canada que le canada charcute le Québec. "

    There are all kinds of possibilities, and that's the point. Nothing is set in stone. And any resolution or agreement of today may easily be the toilet paper of tomorrow.

    ReplyDelete
  65. "There are all kinds of possibilities, and that's the point. Nothing is set in stone. And any resolution or agreement of today may easily be the toilet paper of tomorrow"

    This is a rational and humble mindset that more of us should have

    ReplyDelete
  66. @ Sandy Mc...Canadian Tire:

    "more bad history from your poison pen. A great many franco quebecers volunteered and fought very bravely during both World Wars."

    I never said that all Quebecois avoided military service, but it is well known that many did. I own a cottage near a small Francophone town in the Outaouais region of Quebec. There is a wilderness lake in the area that has caves along a steep and heavily forested shoreline. An acquaintance of mine who lives nearby informed me that some Quebecois men of military age hid in those caves during both wars. There are also examples of Francophones who ingested foreign substances so they would fail military medical entry exams.

    "Your distorted understanding of Canadian history is apparent to all the readers of this blog who made it out of grade 10. You will never win an argument by making up facts"

    Let me see now. I achieved a 95% average in a college level course on the Second World War. You make a lot of erroneous assumptions.

    "Perhaps your uninformed uncle had post traumatic stress disorder."

    My uncle wasn't the only veteran who returned home from the war and then fought with Francophones. Others did too, and I doubt they all had PTSD. My uncle was a tough, proud soldier whose sacrifices gave you the freedom to behave like an a--hole today.

    Your comments are pompous, arrogant and obnoxious. And you have received compliments from Press 9 again, who is one of the most vile separatists that I have ever encountered.

    ReplyDelete
  67. "it will end in a civil war.

    Mark my words."

    I hope so, because I will have no problem, shooting some of these racist language Nazis. I will do it with a smile on my face. Bring it on scum bags.

    ReplyDelete
  68. @War Uncle Anonymous:

    Without looking up any facts, I can say that you're the one whose comments are ignorant.

    Draft dodging has been common in every nation with forced conscription.

    Although I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage of draft dodgers was higher among the french canadian population during ww2, as the population of quebec was strongly opposed to conscription, claiming that "It was mostly Anglo-Canadians who fought and died in these wars, while many Quebecois were draft dodgers who hid in the backwoods of Quebec." is just ignorant.

    And if you uncle did come back to "fight the french" as you claim, he most likely did have serious psychological issues. What, your uncle decided that not enough french people suffered, and he was going to make them pay? Makes sense (if you're insane).
    But I don't see how any of that is even related, you're just on a mission of Quebec bashing.

    Essentially, you are at the same level as the french separatists who "don't like the mean english people".

    ReplyDelete
  69. Jason the Montreal Anglo said:
    "I'm not saying I want to see violence in the streets and I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't get involved, but let's be realistic here; there are enough morons in our city to cause a commotion. And by morons I mean douchy highschool drop-outs with the civility of a komodo dragon"

    "I hope so, because I will have no problem, shooting some of these racist language Nazis. I will do it with a smile on my face. Bring it on scum bags"

    See what I mean?

    ReplyDelete
  70. "My uncle was a tough, proud soldier whose sacrifices gave you the freedom to behave like an a--hole today."

    Dommage qu'on ne puisse entendre les son des violons.

    Les Québécois dont vous parlez ne ressentaient aucun sentiment d'appartenance avec l'Angleterre et se sentaient totalement étrangers dans ce conflit avant tout Européen.

    Iriez-vous vous battre pour le Québec demain?
    Personne ne vous traiterait de trou du cul pour autant,enfin je crois.

    ReplyDelete
  71. "Les Québécois dont vous parlez ne ressentaient aucun sentiment d'appartenance avec l'Angleterre et se sentaient totalement étrangers dans ce conflit avant tout Européen."

    They obviously couldn't care less about their cousins in France either.

    ReplyDelete
  72. @ Anon. at 11:51 AM:

    "Draft dodging has been common in every nation with forced conscription."

    Really? Do you think it was common in Germany, Japan or the USSR during the Second World War? Or what about North Korea or China during the Korean War?

    There also wasn't much evidence of draft dodging in the U.S. during World War Two: people volunteered in droves.

    Methinks you are the one who is ignorant.

    ReplyDelete
  73. "And if you uncle did come back to "fight the french" as you claim, he most likely did have serious psychological issues. What, your uncle decided that not enough french people suffered, and he was going to make them pay? Makes sense (if you're insane)."

    He didn't come back with the express purpose of "fighting the French." He (and other English speaking veterans) were angry because they lost friends in the war and because they felt that Francophones didn't pull their weight.

    There has always been fighting amongst the French and the English, both individually and in groups. I grew up in a working class district of Montreal, and one of my teenaged Anglophone neighbours made a hobby of picking fights with the French. He did not have "psychological issues" nor was he "insane." The English in Quebec used to stand up for themselves. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case for the most part. I suppose it is hard to defend yourself when the law is stacked against you (101, etc.).

    ReplyDelete
  74. "my teenaged Anglophone neighbours made a hobby of picking fights with the French"

    "I suppose it is hard to defend yourself when the law is stacked against you"

    Sorry but these statements contradict themselves

    ReplyDelete
  75. Stop including huge areas that are almost totally French-speaking on your partition maps! For example, aside from a few small towns near the US border, all the area south of the St. Lawrence is virtually totally Francophone. Some areas voted no but it's not because they're full of anglos. I know, I grew up there and I've looked at Statistics Canada's website for each riding.

    I'm too lazy to make a map so here's the one from the 2008 election.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Canada_Fed_election_2008_Ridings.svg/2000px-Canada_Fed_election_2008_Ridings.svg.png

    Red/Liberal = where almost all anglos and allophones live. Needless to say, the conservative ridings around Quebec City are virtually 100% French.
    Of course, a formerly Bloc riding does not mean there are no minorities, but it's a convenient map because all the ridings that voted for the Bloc all clearly have a French-speaking majority, you can check it out yourself here:
    http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-595/p2c.cfm?TPL=INDX&LANG=E

    So your new province of Quebec right next to an independent Quebec would either still have a Francophone majority or it would be really, really small. Leave the regions outside of Montreal out of this. Most Franco-federalists probably wouldn't even consider partition for obvious linguistic reasons so they would just accept independence.
    This is a Montreal issue, not a Quebec-wide issue.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Si je comprend bien le Québec deviendra un immense puzzle fractionné en mille morceaux.

    Comment allons-nous diviser les quartiers...Et les rues?Et les voisins?

    Je suis un séparatiste et mon voisin est fédéraliste.Nous le savons car a chaque fois que nous lui arrachons son "canadian flag" devant sa maison,le lendemain il en réinstalle un nouveau.

    Sûrement un ami de Sheila Copps.

    ReplyDelete
  77. "chaque fois que nous lui arrachons son "canadian flag" devant sa maison"

    How charming. Stealing the national symbol of a nation someone chooses to identify with within that very same nation. You sir, are morally equivalent to a faschist.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Anon 2:37

    Political ridings do not reflect a potential referendum result in the least bit.

    ReplyDelete
  79. "You sir, are morally equivalent to a faschist."

    Regardez attentivement ceci:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP8WANzN1jM

    ReplyDelete
  80. @Jason the Montreal Anglo
    I don't want to eradicate the french culture. I would just like the people here to stop thinking that our culture is any better than the other.

    I would also like to have those granola smokers that, unfortunately, since not a lot of people are french speaking in north america, you can't request that all goods be in that language.

    We have nothing here because of that.

    Outlawing products because they don't have a user manual in french is plain stupid. As stupid as complaining about receiving a sprite instead of a 7-Up and the fact that a stewardess on a flight going to an english city does not talk french.

    We live in north america. Not bloody europe, get a life.

    ReplyDelete
  81. "Stealing the national symbol of a nation"

    Tu apportes un bon point Jason. Sais-tu que trois des principaux symboles d'identité de la nation canadienne-anglaise appartiennent à une autre nation ? En effet, le terme Canada, l'emblème de la feuille d'érable et l'hymne Ô Canada sont des symboles d'identité que la nation québécoise s'était donnés avant que les Anglais se les approprient.

    Nous entreprendrons au moment opportun des démarches pour empêcher qu'une nation étrangère continue d'utiliser les symboles d'identité nationale qui nous ont été volés.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Jason 3:09

    The fact remains that those ridings have a French majority so whatever the results of the referendum, they have nothing in common with ridings that have many anglos wanting to stay in Canada.
    Back in 1995, partition was pretty much only discussed in west island towns for obvious reasons.
    Having two Quebecs, one free and one within Canada wouldn't make much sense. Most Francophones would probably want to live in an independent Quebec even if they voted no or else it would be like West Germany and East Germany, a people divided. Language is more important than politics.

    ReplyDelete
  83. "I would just like the people here to stop thinking that our culture is any better than the other."

    Pas supérieurs,différents.Quel sens de l'observation.

    "Outlawing products because they don't have a user manual in french is plain stupid.

    Nous appelons ça,se tenir debout.J'aimerais bien connaître le coût annuel pour l'achat de vos "happy knees".

    "would also like to have those granola smokers that"

    Aucun préjugé a part ça.

    J'ai travaillé 3 ans en ontario,je n'aimais pas leur culture.Devinez ce que j'ai fait?Je suis revenu chez-moi et j'y suis très bien contrairement a vous.

    Donc,je vous dit "get a life in ontario".

    ReplyDelete
  84. "Regardez attentivement ceci:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP8WANzN1jM"

    You can show me whatever you like. It doesn't change what I think about you. The whole "he's doing it too" is a child's reasoning. Grow up.
    And I'm still not sold on that incident. I think there's a very good possibility that that officer did what he did because a flag was being waved in his face and had nothing to do with it being a Quebec flag, but that's just my opinion. Only he knows what he was really thinking. Either way, I can say with 100% confidence that however shitty you think that police officer is, you are the exact same level of shitty if not moreso, because you brag about doing it over and over, to your own neighbour!

    Moofo, I understand what you're saying. I really do. The culture isn't any better, you're right. But I believe that the specific people that invent a certain culture should have the right to choose how they wish that culture to progress; and currently that right is being denied to Canadians and Quebecois through mass immigration and forced multiculturalism. Quebecois culture may live on in the sense that Quebec will remain French (and even that's debatable), but the specific people that invented that culture (remember culture is more than just language) are being diluted, and that does destroy a culture. Distinct peoples are not the products of distinct cultures, distinct cultures are the products of distinct peoples.

    ReplyDelete
  85. anon 3:34

    I just meant it that if it ever came down to the final desicion of a partition referendum, francos would think long and hard about their decision and you may be suprised by the results. Many francos vote Bloc and PQ but remain federalist. It isn't so black and white. There are allot of gray areas.

    A partitoned Quebec would be nothing like Germany. One part would fall into confederation and one would be on its own to do what it likes. I fail to see the problems with that. The only risk of turmoil is people simply being angry at the fact Quebec was split but I'm sure that feeling would fade with time. As far as future politics goes, both nations would be free to operate without the meddling hand of the other

    ReplyDelete
  86. Dear Old Sandy,

    Your occasionally interesting comments are diminished by your pompous, arrogant tone. Sadly, your egotistical desire to demonstrate your intelligence and enlighten the ‘space cadets’ makes you sound like a condescending, tiresome bore. What a pity.

    ReplyDelete
  87. "...a flag was being waved in his face..."

    Il n'avait qu'a faire trois pas vers la gauche...Vous avez dit mauvaise foi?
    Je crois qu'il cherchait simplement un prétexte pour laisser exprimer le faschiste qu'il est.

    Aurait-il agit de la sorte si le drapeau avais été canadien?Soyez honnête s.v.p!

    ReplyDelete
  88. @Jason: wasn't that the original idea behind the whole separation thing? I believe that's what René Lévesque wanted, to be able to run our own affairs.

    Unfortunately, many francophones who feel threatened by english speaking people (it must not feel good knowing you can't even speak the language of world business) have turned the whole issue into a language war, and continue to push their "on va les avoir les anglais!" propaganda.
    People like Jacques Parizeau and Pierre Curzi have institutionalized racism in this province, making it seem completely normal to hate people based on their language or any other minor difference.
    These extremists keep pushing the idea that the mean english man is threatening the french Canadian culture and lifestyle, this is the only way they can manage to keep a decent level of support for their radical ideas.

    Simply "hating english people" isn't really a valid reason to separate, and it's not a very good base on which to start a nation.

    ReplyDelete
  89. "...have turned the whole issue into a language war..."

    Croyez-moi,ce n'est pas qu'une question de langue.
    Nous savons utiliser l'"anglais" lorsque nous en avons besoin.D'ailleurs vous devriez utiliser le terme "globish" lorsque que vous faites allusion au langage des affaires.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Haïti chérie dit: ''I'm pretty sure this will all end in partition'' Oubliez la partition, ça n'arrivera pas... Lisez ce livre de Claude G. Charron'' La Partition du Québec de Lord Durham à Stéphane Dion Editions VLB, 1996''. L'idée n'est pas neuve et surtout elle ne passera pas !

    ReplyDelete
  91. @ Jason the Montreal Anglo

    Separatists lost 2 referenda and never any talks of civil war or any other form of collective violence arose. On the other hand, the minute one tackles the issues of partition (as I've said previously highly improbable) or a winning "yes" vote, *noisy* voices come out implicitly wishing a civil war. While I don't believe it would happen, I'm left mused by such claims.

    ReplyDelete
  92. "Nous savons utiliser l'"anglais" lorsque nous en avons besoin.D'ailleurs vous devriez utiliser le terme "globish" lorsque que vous faites allusion au langage des affaires."

    Je dirais qu'un grand pourcentage de québécois français ne sont même pas capables d'écrire le français correctement, oublions l'anglais..
    Ce sont les même gens qui nous disent qu'il faut protéger notre culture "si précieuse", ces fans de Loft Story et de Musique Plus.

    Et si ce n'est pas une question de langue, tu pourrais surement me donner d'autres arguments. Je suis également curieux de savoir comment tu imagine compenser pour la perte de la péréquation.. C'était bien beau comme idée lorsque c'était nous qui payait, mais ce n'est plus le cas.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Haïti chérie dit: Lisez cette nouvelle :http://www.cyberpresse.ca/chroniqueurs/nathalie-petrowski/201108/18/01-4426900-gilles-duceppe-arrive-lundi-parti-mercredi.php On y lit que ''Pourtant, 24 heures plus tard, alors que les médias anglophones s'indignaient à pleines pages dans les journaux de l'embauche d'un séparatiste par une institution fédérale, tout a basculé. '' Il y a une bonne dose d'hystérie chez les canadiens anglais... On a bien John Parisella et autres Jean Lapierre, personne en fait de cas... Et voilà les chemises brunes qui ressortent de la penderie!

    ReplyDelete
  94. I think I would like to put an end to the discours on whether francophones are not willing to serve in the military by pointing out that during the Afghanistan campaign, the proportion of French-Canadians serve (and sadly, die) there is greater than their population proportion in Canada.

    This is, of course, because one of the three Mechanized Brigade Groups (5CMBG) of the Canadian Army - basically the Army's main active forces - is located in Quebec and designated as francophone unit.

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  95. À Moofo : ''On s'en calisse du français, on veut VIVRE et avoir un niveau de vie qui a de l'allure'' Bon la négation au profit de sa maison de banlieue et sa petite tondeuse bien rangée dans le cabanon adjacent à son ''driveway''. Pauvre petite personne, nous n'en n'avons définitivement pas suffisamment pour notre argent avec vous et l'investissement en éducation !

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  96. "Je dirais qu'un grand pourcentage de québécois français ne sont même pas capables d'écrire le français correctement, oublions l'anglais."

    Font-ils des affaires a l'étranger?
    Ha oui j'oubliais!Ils en ferait s'ils parlaient anglais.Et oui tous les anglos "brassent" de grosses affaires a l'étranger.

    "Je dirais qu'un grand pourcentage de québécois français ne sont même pas capables d'écrire le français correctement"

    Raison de plus pour ne pas ajouter l'anglais dès le primaire.

    "Je suis également curieux de savoir comment tu imagine compenser pour la perte de la péréquation."

    Quel est le rapport entre la question identitaire et la péréquation ?

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  97. "Bon la négation au profit de sa maison de banlieue et sa petite tondeuse bien rangée dans le cabanon adjacent à son ''driveway''."

    Hahahahaha!Excellent!Mais Moofo veut aussi une piscine creusée avec toute la game de produits chimiques qui l'accompagne et y faire baigner sa progéniture.N'oublions surtout pas les cours d'anglais au privé des la première année du primaire.

    P'tite christ de vie de minable.

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  98. "Ce sont les même (sic) gens qui nous disent qu'il faut protéger notre culture "si précieuse", ces fans de Loft Story et de Musique Plus."

    Vous vous trompez de clientèle,ce ne sont pas les mêmes.Vous tentez d'associer la culture,dans le sens noble du terme,avec la masse populaire afin de créer un effet contradictoire.

    Désolé,c'est raté!

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  99. "Separatists lost 2 referenda and never any talks of civil war or any other form of collective violence arose. On the other hand, the minute one tackles the issues of partition (as I've said previously highly improbable) or a winning "yes" vote, *noisy* voices come out implicitly wishing a civil war."

    This is plagiarized from B.Landry, who said:

    "The partitionists argue that 'No' voters should have more rights than 'Yes' voters. In 1980 and again in 1995, sovereignist voters accepted with good grace the majority decision. According to the partitionists, some 'No' voters could ignore democracy, refuse the verdict and change the rules of the game. This would be an intolerable injustice…. [Do] you think that the towns or the regions that voted 'Yes' in 1980 and in 1995 also have the right to break themselves away from Canada? Surely not."

    (It's also probably something straight out of the pequiste handbook)

    The part of accepting the loss with grace is such nonsense. What happened was not "grace", not according to my definition of grace anyways. How can we forget Parizeau's rant, and Landry's abuse of an allophone hotel bus boy on the night of the referendum. How about the crazed and senile Parizeau declaring: "on se crache dans les mains et on recommence", which loosely translates into "we roll up our sleeves, and we start again", and doesn't sound like accepting the verdict at all, let alone with grace.

    Also, the "acceptance" was not a result of "good grace", but of having no choice. If there were other options (if Parizeau could resort to a military for example), he most certainly would have done it. But without the military, all he could have hoped for was to squeak through the 50%, and then try to sell this to the world (and especially the Americans whose ass the Quebecois are forever condemned to kissing, for the lack of other options).

    As per Landry's insinuation that the regions that voted Yes could potentially break away from Canada, all I can say is I wish. We'd be so much better off without them.

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  100. @ Jason,

    "my teenaged Anglophone neighbours made a hobby of picking fights with the French"

    "I suppose it is hard to defend yourself when the law is stacked against you"

    "Sorry but these statements contradict themselves"

    In the first statement I was referring to the time prior to the passage of the language laws.

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  101. "loosely translates into "we roll up our sleeves, and we start again", and doesn't sound like accepting the verdict at all, let alone with grace"

    La température politique du Québec n'est pas au beau fixe,elle est variable...D'une décennie a l'autre.

    "I hope so, because I will have no problem, shooting some of these racist language Nazis. I will do it with a smile on my face. Bring it on scum bags"

    Vous avourez que le ton est assez différent.Vous ne sentez pas la rage?

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  102. @ Haiti cherie,

    "Oubliez la partition, ça n'arrivera pas... Lisez ce livre de Claude G. Charron'' La Partition du Québec de Lord Durham à Stéphane Dion Editions VLB, 1996''. L'idée n'est pas neuve et surtout elle ne passera pas !"

    Who gives a damn about what a drunk driving shoplifter has to say?!

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  103. "It's also probably something straight out of the pequiste handbook"

    Peu importe la provenance,ce constat est indéniable que vous le vouliez ou non mr.scowen.

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  104. "Who gives a damn about what a drunk driving shoplifter has to say?!"

    Vous avez oubliez de mentionner qu'il est gai.

    Maintenant expliquez-moi en quoi cela le rend-il moins intelligent.Churchill et bien d'autres étaient alcooliques.Hitler ne prenait pas une goutte d'alcool et était végétarien.

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  105. @ Haiti cherie,

    "On y lit que ''Pourtant, 24 heures plus tard, alors que les médias anglophones s'indignaient à pleines pages dans les journaux de l'embauche d'un séparatiste par une institution fédérale, tout a basculé.''....Et voilà les chemises brunes qui ressortent de la penderie!"

    You appear to have a fixation with brown shirts. Gilles Duceppe has been wearing one for over 20 years now and it is getting rather smelly. In most other countries around the world he would have been tried for sedition and treason, and then jailed, deported or worse.

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  106. @ Press 9,

    "Maintenant expliquez-moi en quoi cela le rend-il moins intelligent.Churchill et bien d'autres étaient alcooliques."

    It is one thing to drink, but quite another to drink and drive, which is criminal and is a sign of bad judgement. And only an idiot would steal a sports jacket when he is making $70,000 a year.

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  107. "In most other countries around the world he would have been tried for sedition and treason, and then jailed, deported or worse."

    Hé papy,de quelle tribu parlez-vous donc?Nous sommes au canada pas au kurdistan.Même si j'aurais aimé voir galganov quitter le Québec couvert de goudron et de plumes :)

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  108. @ Anon.:

    "It is one thing to drink, but quite another to drink and drive, which is criminal and is a sign of bad judgement."

    At least Charron didn't kill anybody while drunk driving, as was the case with Rene Levesque.

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  109. @adski

    "This is plagiarized from B.Landry"

    I didn't know of this quote by M. Landry. I don't see how it invalidates my point exactly.

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  110. "Aurait-il agit de la sorte si le drapeau avais été canadien?Soyez honnête s.v.p!"

    I don't know. And I also don't know if he did it because it was a Quebec flag. And I guarantee you don't know either so stop assuming. Want to know how I know you don't know? Because I don't know, and you do not posess magical powers that I do not.

    "D'ailleurs vous devriez utiliser le terme "globish" lorsque que vous faites allusion au langage des affaires"

    Globish is the term used to describe the English spoken by a non-anglo (someone whose mother tongue isn't English) in the context of international business. Thus every Canadian who speaks English, speaks English and not globbish. Don't distort facts.

    "Oubliez la partition, ça n'arrivera pas"

    Tell that to the Irish and the Indians.

    "Separatists lost 2 referenda and never any talks of civil war or any other form of collective violence arose"

    The last referendum was 16 years ago. Completely different times. The general education level of Quebec has decreased significantly since then, and that's not racist it's a statistic.

    "Il y a une bonne dose d'hystérie chez les canadiens anglais... On a bien John Parisella et autres Jean Lapierre, personne en fait de cas... Et voilà les chemises brunes qui ressortent de la penderie!"

    I dub thee the queen of distorting and exagerating facts. And as for the brown shirts comment, you those anglos that you think are garbage for calling Quebecois Nazis, well you're an equal level of garbage for stooping to their level. Congrats ;)

    "Hahahahaha!Excellent!Mais Moofo veut aussi une piscine creusée avec toute la game de produits chimiques qui l'accompagne et y faire baigner sa progéniture.N'oublions surtout pas les cours d'anglais au privé des la première année du primaire.

    P'tite christ de vie de minable."

    You contribute nothing of value to the discussion and assume an individual's desired lifestyle and judge said ordinary lifestyle as though it were beneeth you like you're some sort of diety. Who do you think you are?

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  111. "Who do you think you are?"

    Je ne vous dirai pas qui je suis mais je peux vous dire ceci:

    Je n'abandonnerai jamais ma langue,ma culture,bref,mon héritage.Pour une piscine,un BBQ et deux autos.

    Certains ont encore un minimum de fierté et de...Morale.

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  112. "Je n'abandonnerai jamais ma langue,ma culture,bref,mon héritage.Pour une piscine,un BBQ et deux autos."

    Premièrement, personne ne te demande d'abandonner quoi que ce soit, et personne n'essaie de t'enlever ta langue ou ta culture. Nous ne sommes plus dans les années 50.

    Deuxièmement, la plupart de mes concitoyens québécois ont très peu de culture. "Loft Story" et "Musique Plus", c'est de la grosse culture. Une grande partie des québécois ne sont même pas capable de parler ou d'écrire le français correctement. "Yo check ça man, c'est hot en criss!" (ça te dit de quoi?)
    Nous avons une histoire et un héritage, oui, mais la plupart des québécois se disent prêts à défendre la culture et la langue, alors qu'ils ne veulent même pas faire l'effort pour apprendre leur propre langue.

    Et finalement, je t'apprends que la connaissance de différentes langues pourrait ajouter à ta culture. Mais je comprends que tu es satisfait à rester dans ton petit village perdu, et que les "méchants anglais" qui nous entourent te font peur, avec leur langue qui est un mystère pour toi. Ça doit te faire peur.

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  113. Why are the seppies so afraid of partition? Partition is inevitable, it is only a matter of time, and it will be good for everyone.

    I actually think the seppies should be put on some reserve, to be honest with you. Some commune or some island, where 2-3 million of them could enact their paradise, with "social justice", "equality", "fraternity", "camaraderie", "social cohesion" and other utopian delusions.

    And of course, where the French language could flourish in safety, which is denied in the real world by the existence of other languages.

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  114. Voici pourquoi je suis intervenu :

    "On s'en calisse du français, on veut VIVRE et avoir un niveau de vie qui a de l'allure"
    - Moofo (le magnifique)

    "Et finalement, je t'apprends que la connaissance de différentes langues pourrait ajouter à ta culture."

    Une des première règle du savoir vivre est de ne jamais tutoyer un étranger.

    Deuxièmement,que savez-vous au sujet de ma culture ou de mon éduation?De mes voyages?

    Qui est a l'origine des concepts (originaux) des émissions télé que vous citez en exemple?

    "Mais je comprends que tu es satisfait à rester dans ton petit village perdu"

    Si vous considérez Montréal comme étant un village.

    "Ça doit te faire peur"

    Personnellement je n'ai aucune crainte.Mes appréhensions proviennent de la précarité, maintenant palpable,de notre avenir collectif.

    "Yo check ça man, c'est hot en criss!"

    Qu'est-ce qui ne fonctionne pas dans cette phrase?

    La sémantique?La syntaxe?l'orthographe?
    Ou globalement,l'influence anglo-saxonne?

    "Deuxièmement, la plupart de mes concitoyens québécois ont très peu de culture."

    Une courte analyse de votre commentaire me porte a croire que les concitoyens auxquels vous faites allusion,sont plus près de vous que vous ne semblez le croire.

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  115. @ Anon. aka Press 9,

    "Je n'abandonnerai jamais ma langue,ma culture,bref,mon héritage.Pour une piscine,un BBQ et deux autos."

    It's highly unlikely you could even afford a pool, a BBQ or two cars, because you obviously aren't working. One wonders what you do at all besides play on a computer.

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