Wednesday, March 2, 2011

French language Militants Organizing to Fight Grade Six Bilingualism

One of Quebec's dirtiest little secrets is that the powers that be, the entrenched educators, most politicians, the unions and the civil service, all share a unique view of Quebec as a unilingual country/province, where English should be discouraged rather than promoted.

This of course doesn't jive with what the general public wants, a province which is French, but where every child is taught to speak English as a matter of public policy.

In a battle of wills, it's not hard to predict that it will be the powerful and entrenched, French-only militants who will prevail in imposing their view of a unilingual Quebec on the powerless public.

Premier Charest's pronouncement that sixth grade school children will be treated to half a school year of English immersion sent sub-surface shock waves throughout the intelligentsia who view this possibility as a dangerous development, a project to be nipped in the bud as soon as possible.

The reality is that the Premier's promise of English immersion is another pipe dream, similar to the promise he made during the last election campaign that we could expect reduced wait times in emergency rooms.
Both are lofty ideals, but unfortunately neither is attainable in present day Quebec.

And so six years after the Liberals took power with the promise of improving wait time in the emergency room, Quebec has sunk to last place in North America, where it takes an average of  1026 minutes or about 17 hours to be treated, wherein the average in the United States is 240 minutes. LINK

Better to move the public debate to a new and different unattainable promise than to mire in the failure  of the past.

For the powers that be, keeping Quebec unilingual is viewed as a necessary evil that protects and maintains the French language and Quebec's unique culture. The present day policy of functional unilingualism acts as the  'FRENCH CURTAIN' that envelopes Quebec's borders and keeps citizens from exercising free movement due to their inability to communicate with the outside world.

Author Christian Dufour, sums up neatly the pathological fear that many Francophone intellectuals share;
"If all Quebeckers become very bilingual, they will buy more records, newspapers and books in English. It will create a decline in interest for our cultural products, already heavily subsidized. ...
"It's a a regression of identity, It means that those who do not speak English are not functional, as if being French no longer sufficed, that English was a necessity to exist.
LINK
In a letter to the editor a reader, dead set against the teaching of English summons the same hackneyed excuses that are the hallmark of bilingualism foes.
" Although I think the teaching of English should be improved in Quebec, I disagree with the government's plan mandating the exclusive learning of English for half of the 6th year, compressing all other academic subjects in the other half. Where will we find the specialist teachers who will be needed? Teachers are already in an impossible situation, that is, to integrate students with learning disabilities in regular classes. Now we want every child, whatever his strengths and weaknesses, to become bilingual while assimilating a school year in 5 months"
And so support for the existing FRENCH CURTAIN of ignorance remains strong and like the IRON CURTAIN of the communist era, it may be cynical and cruel, but undeniably effective. Francophone Quebeckers are the least mobile of all Canadians and are culturally and linguistically dependent on the province, like an infant attached to its mother's breast, a pleasing state of affairs to militants.

Take for example the exodus of newly-minted anglophone doctors who are exiting the province at a rate of about 50% due to the gross iniquity in remuneration and working conditions as compared to any other place in North America. Yet francophone colleagues remain steadfastly at home, tied to the province through the language and cultural handicap.

For language militants and separatists, this represents a happy state of affairs, not something to be trifled with at all.

And so unless you are a unionized government employee (including government corporation like Hydro-Quebec)  or a unionized construction worker, working in French in Quebec means working for less money. The lack of worker mobility because language is the number one factor.
It's no different than the bygone practice of controlling women by keeping them "barefoot and pregnant," a cynical device to keep women in their place.

Nobody can deny the effect of Bill 101 in transforming Quebec from a bilingual to French only society. The higher echelons of elected government, the bureaucracy, state controlled business have all eliminated English completely from daily affairs.
Years ago politicians, even separatists were fluently bilingual, including René Levesque, Jacques Parizeau, Lucien Bouchard, Daniel Johnson, André Boisclair and even Bernard Landry.
Today's politicians, Liberals included, can hardly speak a whit of English and this includes Liberal cabinet ministers who sound like tourists reading out of a handbook when speaking English.

Unlike the citizens in the street, most of these leaders remain firmly planted in unilingual Quebec society and cannot really see the utility of English.

And so the backlash begins.

Of course the French radicals who populate the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste, Mouvement Montréal français and the majority of readers and writers on vigile.net have no qualms about opposing this bilingualism initiative on principle, but they are of no import, they have zero power.

The meaningful push back will come from those who have the political power and will to sabotage the bilingualism project from the inside. These are the politicians, the school board officials, the teacher's union who will pronounce themselves firmly in favour of bilingualism...with an asterik.
They will cleverly support bilingualism publicly, but work to sink the implementation of any such project from the inside.

Yves Parenteau of the Teacher's Alliance;
"We already had trouble teaching all the content in the other subjects. The problem will worsen if we have to steal time
from other disciplines in order to teach  English" LINK{FR}

There is really no political will to speak of in the French school system to teach English. While everybody pretends that it's a good idea, the entire system will fight to keep English out.

The teacher's union, which doesn't have members with the capacity to teach English will fight tooth and nail to keep Anglophone teachers from replacing unilingual francophone teachers and that's just a start.
The ideologues throughout the system, be it the Ministry of Education, the school commissions and the teachers themselves will work to frustrate any plan to further the teaching of English.

In the meantime a policy of misinformation, ignorance and misdirection towards the teaching of English continues unabated in the media

A recurring theme in many of those complaining about the proposed language training, is that it isn't fair that English students will not be subjected to the same intensive training in French. Here's a typical complaint{FR}

What an ignorant fool!

Most Francophones remain entirely ignorant of the efforts of the English community to teach French intensively to their children. Here in a letter to Le Devoir by Jean-Michel Brunet, a French teacher in an English school, sets the record straight LINK{FR}
By the way, as most parents can attest, this intense French language instruction doesn't turn the children into francophones, but rather, bilingual anglophones!
Intensive French instruction for English students has been in the curriculum of English schools for over thirty years, with French immersion and general language starting in kindergarten.

Gilles Proulx, the French blowhard radio and television personality, gratuitously claims that English high school students can't speak a word of French, a lie that only an ignorant fool would propagate.

French educational 'intellectuals' continue to weave the fiction that starting young children on second language instruction is dangerous and confusing, a concept that runs counter to what the rest of the world believes.
The myth that learning English turns Francophones into Englishmen is perhaps the most monstrous of all the distortions propagated, yet we hear it every day.

Look for this project to teach English intensively to die a death of a thousand cuts. While nobody will admit to it, there will be an insurmountable campaign to scuttle the plan because while educators agree that learning English is important, they aren't really in favour of it.

And so it remains that your typical francophone high school graduate cannot ask for the time of day in English and come to think of it, neither can their teachers.

Parents who seek English for their children will do what they need to do, outside of the system.  More kids learn English by playing video games and watching English television and movies than through the entire English training provided by the French educational system.

Francophones who learn English do so on their own, by their own ingenuity and effort, and they should be congratulated.

In acquiring English they never could count on the support of the French educational system and sadly, notwithstanding Mr. Charest's announcement, they never will.

Instead of looking to the English school boards as an example of how to properly teach a second language, the government is setting out on a program doomed to fail from the start. Every English parent who has sent their child to English school where French is taught intensely, knows that it takes years of training and that the earlier the exposure to a second language starts the better.

French language militants who want to keep franncophone Quebeckers unilingual, should applaud Mr. Charest's effort.
As the greatest English playwright said in Macbeth - it is a case of;
  'Sound and fury, signifying nothing"

42 comments:

  1. OK, now to give the Francophone troll readers a good laugh: I started a new position with my employer a month ago, a bilingual position. I'm in my 13th year at this employer, and spoke French in my old jobs, but on this one they want my French to be at a higher level.

    One suggestion is watching French on YouTube or the internet, where I can repeat what is being said until I understand what I'm hearing better. The Quebec branches of the business can be very cruel, especially outside of Montreal, where they get P'd off if I throw in one word of English. "Call in the bin"! (That business name is pure genius, and I sent a message to the owner stating so).

    Anyway, to get back on topic, I don't think this is a great idea. You can't have kids not learning much English up to grade six and then throw them in for a one-year catch-up program. Like with the English schools, the learning of French starts now right in kindergarten. I had to wait until grade three before I was taught French...in Quebec!

    Of course, that won't fly in French schools, i.e., starting English right off the bat in S.K. Besides, Bill 101 doesn't allow that without the Minister of Education's OK. Considering how one kid had to go to Delaware for English schooling, notwithstanding the fact Bill 101 does contain clauses to consider children with learning challenges and on humanitarian grounds in certain circumstances.

    At the age of 19, when Bill 101 came out, I remember very vividly having conversations with my mom how this law was going to turn Quebec into a French prison. Lo and behold, my predictions are coming true. I left Quebec because I hate it, but I'll equal myself to my manager's challenge to improve my French because it will be of benefit to me to improve my second language. It's good for the brain to speak more than one language as you use other parts of your brain in the process and they're finding it lessens the probability of developing Alzheimer's disease and other brain dysfunctions.

    I left Quebec with a very bad attitude, not a difficult thing considering the craziness going on and only getting worse. I resented being made to feel like a foreigner on the soil where I was born, but sometimes things do come back to bite one in the ass. It sometimes hurts now to sit down, but I'll adapt. Too bad most Québécois won't, but I'll have the last laugh.

    ReplyDelete
  2. For a real taste of how anglophobic some in Quebec are with regards to the english language check out Prefontaine's latest piece.

    http://www.vigile.net/Sixieme-annee-bilingue-la-SSJB

    He would rather Mandarin replace english as the lingua franca due to his intense dislike for anything anglo or english in nature.

    Pathetic..

    ReplyDelete
  3. Leaving the usual french-bashing aside, the article is right about one thing: this is just a diversion from Chart's pathetic incompetence and lack of vision. There are no pedagogic benefit for the children from this taking this one size-fits-all approach, and there is no way that teachers can be expected to make this fit in addition to the current grade 6 curriculum.

    Regarding author's bilingualism rant:
    1. Québec is already the most bilingual province in Canada.
    2. Québécois schools teach mandatory english classes from grade 1 to cegep, and many university courses require the student to read english-language material.
    3. Québec's position in North America as well as cultural and economic pressures ensures that francophone Québécois have very easy access to perfecting their english on their own. We already do quite well in learning on our own.
    4. Can anybody prove that our supposed lack of proficiency in english is hindering us in any way? How come Ontario has a higher unemployment rate that Québec, are they not english enough?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Great piece, Editor.

    Quebec elites (especially Quebec artists) are scared shitless of bilingualism. Bilingualism brings competition to the picture and may likely lead to a dilution of privileges that the elites enjoy.

    And for Quebeckers stuck in the Regions (or Montreal Est), Bill 101 is exactly like an invisible Iron Curtain.

    "In the US and Canada combined, English is the first language of 98 percent of the population - there are only 6.5 million people who can't speak English in this vast area, and 4 million of them are in Quebec"

    Reed Scowen - "Time to Say Goodbye"

    ReplyDelete
  5. "How come Ontario has a higher unemployment rate that Québec, are they not english enough?"

    BANG!

    ReplyDelete
  6. "Leaving the usual french-bashing aside"

    There is no French bashing in this article. It presents facts and quotes and then offers an opiniated prediction of what might happen. And btw just because the author insunates that Gilles Proulx or some such person is an idiot doesn't mean he's a French basher. People need to quit putting confronting nationalists and french bashing in the same boat. They're two completely different things that the seperatists love to distort into one imaginary whole, which they can use as a weapon to promote their own agenda.

    "Québec is already the most bilingual province in Canada"

    K, that's a flat-out lie. NB has that honour by far.

    "Québécois schools teach mandatory english classes from grade 1 to cegep"

    I was educated in a french private school and I know first hand that the English taught there is definitely not of the best quality. My high school had 3 levels of English. I, along with a handful (20-30) of students, were placed in the highest level, and the English taught there was almost a joke; so I can't even imagine what the majority of students my age who ended up in the other levels were learning.

    "Can anybody prove that our supposed lack of proficiency in english is hindering us in any way? How come Ontario has a higher unemployment rate that Québec, are they not english enough?"

    Wow, way to be selective with your facts. If one wishes to better one's self, that person should aspire to be like the best in their field and thus try to achieve a similar level of excellence. Ontario is now officially a have-not province. Wow, we're less unemployed than a have-not province. Big flippin' deal. Alberta is the big boom right now and that's who we should try to compete with. Quebec's unemployment rate 8.5, Alta 7.5, and just for fun Man 5.8, Sask 5.3, BC 8.3, NB 8.5. Ontario (9.3) asside, only 3 of the maritimes have a higher unemployment rate than Quebec and NB has the same, and these are once again have-not provinces. So from my non-selective stats we can conclude that Quebec only has a better unemployment rate than the have-nots. This shows that you shouldn't be selective with your stats. You may end up fooling people but in the end you're really proving nothing.

    And don't make it a language issue. Language has nothing to do with workforce competence or unemployment rates. What it does affect, however, is Quebec's ability to expand into the global market and this is a legitimate issue.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Another interesting article

    http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-nouvelliste/actualites/201004/12/01-4269431-la-tres-convoitee-ecole-anglophone.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers

    ReplyDelete
  8. "There is no French bashing in this article. It presents facts and quotes and then offers an opiniated prediction of what might happen"

    That whole article, like every other on this blog is 50% (extremely-negative) opinion, and 50% name-calling, almost always directed at francophones. Intimating that politicians would like to keep Québécois "barefoot and pregrant" is just plain disgusting. No wonder the editor doesn't use his real name.

    "K, that's a flat-out lie. NB has that honour by far."

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but not according to StatsCan. 33% of NBers are bilingual, while 40% of Québécois are.

    "English taught there is definitely not of the best quality"

    Perhaps not, but with the crowded curriculum it's enough to give everybody very strong base. Books, TV, Music, Films and the Internet nowadays are quite easy ways to immerse yourself further. Like anything thaught in school, those who see a need to go further do quite well on their own. Like me, and eveybody else I know.

    "Wow, way to be selective with your facts. If one wishes to better one's self, that person should aspire to be like the best in their field and thus try to achieve a similar level of excellence."

    The author of the blog disparaged Québec's economic performance in an article about english immersion. I think my point was spot on. And, regarding your later remarks, I fail to sse any proof here that 6th grade immersion will do anything to make Québec more competitive. Like I said, learning english on your own (or taking an additional course) is extremely easy and those that need to already do so. A straightjacket one-size-fits-all english immersion program is not needed.

    ReplyDelete
  9. @Not The One
    "4. Can anybody prove that our supposed lack of proficiency in english is hindering us in any way? How come Ontario has a higher unemployment rate that Québec, are they not english enough?"

    Are u for real? you cherry pick the only year for which this is so, every other year for the last 30 quebec was higher, and check the these data for employment difference between quebec and the rest, http://www.antagoniste.net/2011/02/28/prive-demplois/ are u that blind?
    Get a grip Quebec economy is slipping fast to the least productive in north america (59 out of 60). And u want to know why we sufferred less than Ontario job wise? simple our manufacturing is gone, and what little is left is on it's way out (Electrolux, Phillips, Weston, Shell), 40% of our economy at a minimum (and growing) is government dependant, a government that cannot fire people. So what is the impact of the recession for us? simple our debt increases faster.
    Get your head out of the sand man.
    The article i point to you reflects socialist economic policy, stringent language policy a work force getting less and less bilingual and more and more captive.

    "3. Québec's position in North America as well as cultural and economic pressures ensures that francophone Québécois have very easy access to perfecting their english on their own. We already do quite well in learning on our own."

    Oh wow i encounter so many of those bilingual quebecois, they say they are bilingiual but they are not even close, i usually hire kids coming out of the english school system that went to immersion they are more adapted and bilingual then their french counter part in general (it is not an absolute). Most that claim to be bilingual cannot maintain a proper conversation with our customers across north america, heck they cannot talk to someone from the midwest.
    No your repeating BS to yourself so often, that you believe it. Montreal use to be at the conluent of the fench NA andenglish NA, we are becoming a provincial metropolis, diminshed and non influencial, backward in some aspect, with the moronic language laws, and that has been the goal all along.

    ReplyDelete
  10. @AngloBuster "said...
    "How come Ontario has a higher unemployment rate that Québec, are they not english enough?"

    BANG!"

    Wow one year out of 30 makes your proof lol, quel pétard mouiller.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Add this to counter our resident tongue trooper @Not The One
    http://lapresseaffaires.cyberpresse.ca/opinions/chroniques/claude-picher/201103/01/01-4374835-une-nation-de-futurs-petits-salaries.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B40_chroniqueurs_379112_accueil_POS2

    Just get out of the east end and discover the real world buddy.

    ReplyDelete
  12. ...yet ANOTHER reason to create a federal party that puts US first, and French Quebec last. After a typical failed revolution, les petits kebekua have become a bunch of anti-English bigots and intolerant fucks who have made it a goal to teach revisionist history in French schools and spark hatred for "les maudits anglais".

    Fortunately for us, their attempts have failed and will fail because frankly, immigrants couldn't give a rat's ass because the "strugle de le peuple". Montreal (from St.Laurent westward) is and will be a bilingual city and I'm glad that the seppie artists are scared shitless of bilingualism. They can always take their art to Chicoutimi.

    Quebec is an embarrassment to Canada. Canada should show Quebec the door and laugh at their economic misery afterwards.

    PS: When I say "les petits kebekua", I refer to the language morons a al Louis Prefontaine.

    ReplyDelete
  13. "How come Ontario has a higher unemployment rate that Québec, are they not english enough?"

    The slightly higher unemployment rate in Ontario is a result of the recent recession. It has a considerably larger manufacturing base than Quebec, and manufacturing was hit the hardest by the recession.

    ReplyDelete
  14. So now I'm a tongue trooper, eh? Just because I don't share your hatred for our province, apparently. The facts are there, Québec's enmployment stats are under the Canadian average, and our economic outlook is better than our neighbors. I think a lot of things are still a mess but if you're such a dia-hard libertarian then you picked the wrong state to live in.

    Regarding bilingualism, I never onced claimed to be against it. I think on a personnal level it's a good thing, but Charest's plan is broken, unworkable and undesirable. Despite your assertions, the fact remains that Québec is, by far, the single most bilingual jurisdiction in North America, and francophones especially are more fluent in english than ever. I'll leave you with a quote from the article you posted.

    "Notons aussi qu'avec le temps, les Québécois francophones bilingues ont réussi à améliorer considérablement leur situation par rapport aux Anglo-Québécois. En 1970, les travailleurs francophones, même bilingues, avaient peu d'espoir de toucher des revenus aussi élevés qu'un «Anglais». En fait, l'unilingue anglophone gagnait en moyenne 11% de plus qu'un francophone bilingue. On l'a vu plus haut, les anglos unilingues arrivent maintenant derrière les Québécois bilingues."

    I'd call that progress.

    ReplyDelete
  15. "The slightly higher unemployment rate in Ontario is a result of the recent recession. It has a considerably larger manufacturing base than Quebec"

    Ce n'est pas parce que l'Ontario a un secteur manufacturier considérablement plus grand que celui du Québec que son taux de chômage est plus élevé, c'est parce que l'économie ontarienne est une économie de succursales américaines.

    Là se trouve le drame des Anglo-canadiens : soit qu'ils fassent ce que les Américains leur disent de faire, soit qu'ils fassent comme les Américains, mais en moins bien. Par contre, lorsqu'ils font quelque chose de bien ou de différent, c'est parce qu'ils l'ont pris aux Québécois.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Not The One

    While I may disagreee with a few of your points, I must say that you sir, are the first person to debate with me on a polite and diplomatic level, and for that I apologize if my post aimed at you seemed cocky and brash. I misjudged your character and you didn't deserve it. I would love to go into our respective points further with you right now but I'm leaving work early today. My suggestion to other readers is to remain polite with this dude because he seems quite level-headed to me and can probably spark some interesting debates.

    ReplyDelete
  17. "Ce n'est pas parce que l'Ontario a un secteur manufacturier considérablement plus grand que celui du Québec que son taux de chômage est plus élevé, c'est parce que l'économie ontarienne est une économie de succursales américaines.

    Là se trouve le drame des Anglo-canadiens : soit qu'ils fassent ce que les Américains leur disent de faire, soit qu'ils fassent comme les Américains, mais en moins bien. Par contre, lorsqu'ils font quelque chose de bien ou de différent, c'est parce qu'ils l'ont pris aux Québécois."

    This guy, on the other hand, is a complete idiot

    ReplyDelete
  18. "...c'est parce que l'économie ontarienne est une économie de succursales américaines."

    Not all industries in Ontario are American branch plants. Many are Canadian owned.

    There used to be a large number of American (and Canadian) manufacturing plants and head offices in Quebec, but they had the intelligence to leave, and they are still leaving. They don't want to deal with the annoying, demanding Quebecois. Electrolux is one of the most recent examples. They even had to pass a law to keep Air Canada from leaving Quebec!

    "Là se trouve le drame des Anglo-canadiens : soit qu'ils fassent ce que les Américains leur disent de faire, soit qu'ils fassent comme les Américains, mais en moins bien. Par contre, lorsqu'ils font quelque chose de bien ou de différent, c'est parce qu'ils l'ont pris aux Québécois."

    Absolute hogwash! What a fool! Quebec is so "successful," that it depends upon billions of dollars of transfer payments from English Canada every year to keep it afloat. And it is becoming more dependent as time goes on. Quebec is the 55th least productive province/state in North America and the 5th or 6th most indebted jurisdiction in the world. Quebec's economy and socialist society would collapse without the support of the rest of Canada.

    The most productive people within Quebec are the Anglophones and Allophones on the island of Montreal. The Quebecois are mostly parasites.

    ReplyDelete
  19. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Ontario has a higher unemployment rate, but still has to pay equalization to Quebec. Furthermore, Quebec has so much more government jobs that keep so many uselesses employed. Also what is the amount of the population in Quebec on welfare compared to that of Ontario?

    ReplyDelete
  21. @Not The One
    Again out of 30 years you pick the one and only year where that is true. Figures.

    Your followinfg assertion:
    "So now I'm a tongue trooper, eh? Just because I don't share your hatred for our province, apparently. The facts are there, Québec's enmployment stats are under the Canadian average, and our economic outlook is better than our neighbors. I think a lot of things are still a mess but if you're such a dia-hard libertarian then you picked the wrong state to live in."

    makes you a kool aid drinker, that is in for a rude awakening, we are in better shape? the highest debt level in north america, taxed the highest and our outlook is great? wow.

    Aa for you being a tongue trooper, so far you stating:
    "Can anybody prove that our supposed lack of proficiency in english is hindering us in any way? How come Ontario has a higher unemployment rate that Québec, are they not english enough?"

    Makes you sympathetic to the tongue troopers of this world.

    And nope i am not in the wrong province, Libertarian ideas are taking hold, you may find yourself in the wrong province in due time ;)

    ReplyDelete
  22. Not the One said: How come Ontario has a higher unemployment rate that Québec, are they not english enough?
    After reading the rest of your posts I'm surprised you'd toss out a lame argument like that.
    First, as Anon 12:54 stated, we were harder hit by the recession because of our larger manufacturing base. Quebec has a much higher # of public employees per capita than Ontario does and they are generally better insulated from layoffs.
    Next, Ontario takes in >100,000 new immigrants per year vs about 25,000 for Quebec. In a slowdown it's tougher to absorb the newcomers.
    Finally, the unemployment rate only counts people who are actively looking for employment, so it's possible Quebec has more discouraged workers who aren't looking. The unemployment rate by itself tells you nothing.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Hmmmm.. interesting how this had digressed once again about Quebec vs the ROC with regards to the economy.

    Well, definatively from many sources (MCleans, Fraser Institute, Quebec government finance dept and even Pauline Marois herself)

    The 54th or 55th worst GDP/capita amongst the 60 or so states and provinces in the US and Canada.

    The 9th worst investment climate of the 10 provinces in Canada.

    The worst debt per capita with GDP/debt ratio approaching 95% as Greece, Spain and other countries with failing economies.

    A have not province since equalization was incepted. How come???

    I think the above pretty well states it as it is and no amount of rationalization by the left in Quebec will make it any different.

    EOS

    The Westerner

    ReplyDelete
  24. To Jason the Montreal Anglo

    Thanks for kind words, but I'm not so sure this site is the best place for rational discussions. Polarizing articles only serves to attract extremists on both sided, as some of the comments here show.

    To Qq chode de pourri

    Sorry, but anybody running around calling others Tongue troopers is perhaps not the best person with whom to conduct a civilized argument.

    To Diogenes

    The Ontario comment is IMO a valid, if disputable argument. If people continue to argue that our use of french is hurting us, without any hard data to prove it, then am more than justified to use unemployement to prove otherwise, however flawed that may be. God knows that if unemployment was at 10% here we'd get an earful from you guys.

    ReplyDelete
  25. @Not the one
    "God knows that if unemployment was at 10% here we'd get an earful from you guys."
    Geez what part of one year out of 30 that you take, that is called cherry picking to make a falacious point, you are full of it, 30 years show quebec trailing Ontario, the link i provided shows you employment creation comparison between Quebec and Ontario since 76 (the PQ ring a bell), you cannot make it more vclear, in 76 we were on par, all down hill after that, clearer than that, pulling a one year stat saying haha is stupid and so ill informed, so typical of french canadians in quebec, none too informed economy wise.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Ontario got hit because of the Car industry. Thta's why it's unemployment rate is higher. Has nothing to do with the English / French languages. Also, Quebec's unemployment figures would be much much worse if it wasn't for the large amount of tax payer money being thrown in the market place to create phony baloney jobs by Quebec.

    As for the article, you can sure as hell bet those most to loose will sabotage any efforts to get those kids to learn English. It's no coincidence that the Quebec Labour Unions and the Separatists are one in the same.

    If we can ever get the ADQ to run the province for just one 4 year term, a lot of those sucking off the states' tit would see their imaginary utopia come to a end.

    ReplyDelete
  27. By keeping the Quebecois population in the dark when it comes to second language training (namely English), the government created a captive tax base with limited mobility that has no choice but to stay in Quebec and keep paying taxes to fund the beast.
    Outside of Montreal, rates of bilingualism plummet. The town I grew up in, in the Eastern Townships, was bilingual many years ago and now is pretty much 100% unilingual French. If you ever have the pleasure of speaking to a senior Quebecois of a certain vintage, chances are they'll be able to teach you how to speak English! They speak it so well. Those in their 40s and younger simply can't speak it. This is due to Bill 101 and a phobia of English that gripped the province in the 1970's.
    If one were able to measure a city's interconnection with other cities or countries and quantify that value and compare it, one would see high values in cities like New York, Paris, Toronto even Montreal would fare decently. Now compare Quebec City, a town of half a million residents. That city has virtually no connection to the outside world. It's airport doesn't have any international flights! How is that possible for such a sizable city to be virtually isolated? Even Edmonton has more interconnections with the outside world. I would argue that this is a direct consequence of Quebec's misguided language laws. That is what happens when no one else in the world speaks your language (quebecois joual). Was this by design? Perhaps. But in an increasingly globalized World, Quebec City and the regions of Quebec have a lot of catching up to do if they want to compete and attract the best and brightest. Second language training is definitely a step in the right direction.

    ReplyDelete
  28. I'm from Ontario - bilingual - Québecois mother and Irish father - married to a native of the Beauce. We've lived here - in my husband's hometown - twice. The first time from 1982 - 1990 and the 2nd since 2003. Our kids went to French school and are today fluently bilingual. The entire family is. And we live in one of Canada's cultural capitals among a very large extended family. Life should be good. But it's not. It's a nightmare actually.

    I am qualified in the field of business re-engineering specialising in manufacturing. I am also a certified english language instructor. Both field in which there is an urgent demand for qualified people in this area. I know this because I was sure to check if my skillset was marketable BEFORE we sold our home and moved the family here in 2003.

    It took 4 years for me to secure a position in my field despite the many opportunities posted. No one wanted to hire an 'anglophone'. I have never presented myself as such since I do not require any particular accomodation. As a Canadian, there is no support for me here - no hiring incentives for employers such as there are for pre-selected immigrants. Therefore there is no reason for an employer to hire me and no way for the government to 'control' me if I were hired.

    In 2007 I was hired by a publiclly funded not-for-profit, to work in my field, in the town where I have been associated for more than 20 years. I thought I was finally safe - could renew my career of more than 15 years in this field, and be protected from local prejudice that had banned me from the employment market up until then. My employer was a public organisation and therefore I thought, required to follow the law. Not so.

    After a little more than 4 months 'on the job' - the Director of the local CLD - a man I have never met - called my employer to complain that I was not 'culturally appropriate' to work in the area - that the positions should have been given to a bilingual francophone - a new grad - native to the area. He continued to say that they were no 'businesses' in this area with any interest in doing business outside of Quebec anyway. The CLD is a regional partner - an influential one - and I was terminated, without discussion, following that conversation. I was told that if I complained I would never work again in the area and that I would be destroyed. I did not file a complaint. Without an income, I could not afford to and it would have been a case of the government investigating itself anyway. But my career was destroyed and I have never been able to secure employment since - in any capacity - refused the chance to wash dishes in a restaurant at one point - my accent was considered a problem.

    So I called my MP - Maxime Bernier - who came to chat and tried to help but it is essentially a 'provincial' matter. I called my MNA - my ADQ MNA - the opposition party - that was almost 4 years ago now and he has yet to acknowlege my inquiry much less respond to it. Turns out the members of the CLD are also supporters of the ADQ. The 'old boys club' is alive and well in the Beauce.

    So here I sit - unemployed - unemployable - in fields in which there remains an urgent need for qualified people - unable to survive in Quebec - unable to leave - career destroyed ... at the hands of the government and their croonies ... why .... because as a 'bilingual' anglophone I am considered to be 'culturally inappropriate' to work in my own country - no matter how badly my skillset is required.

    I am starting to tell my story now - inside Quebec and in the ROC. Seperation seems like a plan to me. This place doesn't even resemble Canadian values ... it is a mean-spirited place - the people are great but so dependant and uniformed and disempowered that I fear for their future ... the word ,dictatorship' constantly comes to mind ... how can this continue - unchallenged ... boggles the mind - destroys lives ...

    ReplyDelete
  29. "1. Québec is already the most bilingual province in Canada."

    Yes it is, thanks in large part to the ethnic and anglophone communities who are at the very least bilingual and in many cases trilingual. The same can't be said for the majority of the Quebecois who cower in rural areas fearing the Henglish and les autres.

    "2. Québécois schools teach mandatory english classes from grade 1 to cegep,"

    I've been a teacher in Quebec for ten years. Watching an English movie with French subtitles is NOT English class. Again, the majority of Francophones are woefully unilingual and this includes students, teachers and support staff. A very large portion of francophone educators in this province probably don't know how to ask where the bathroom is 100 kms away from their own home, in their own country! Pathetic.

    "We already do quite well in learning on our own."

    Are you high? I know SQ cops that can barely string together a few English words to make a sentence. Just because Francphone kids recite lil wayne lyrics, it doesn't mean they understand what thet're parroting.

    "Can anybody prove that our supposed lack of proficiency in english is hindering us in any way?"

    If you consider that you live in a continent that has oover three hundred million anglophones, in a world where the common language of business, diplomacy and politics is English, how could the very evident lack of English speakers among the Quebecois not hamper the province in every possible way? Montreal went from being a world class city to the pothole riddled sphincter of the Americas since Bill 101.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Those crossed out Stop signs. I remember in Park Extension, in the late 80s and early 90s someone or some group use to cross out most of the ARRETs on the stop sign. One time I also remember someone used a black Marker and re bilingualized the unilingual Parking restrictions signs. They did quite a few streets. I was suprised, the signs almost looked official. It did give me a thrill because I was use to seeing the stop crossed out when you went East of St Laurent back then, or morphed STOP into 101. Only time I saw those morphed stop signs in the west was in Cote Des Neiges near the university of Montreal campus.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Anon, 9:50AM March 3: "how can this continue - unchallenged ... boggles the mind - destroys lives "

    It does indeed boggle the mind. Some of it is caused by some shady deals and private interests along the Ottawa-Quebec City axis, and some of it is caused by the fact that politicians in Ottawa are effeminate, emasculated types, who prefer to turn tail and look the other way, rather than deal with this serious issue.

    ReplyDelete
  32. To Anonymous 9:50AM

    "So here I sit - unemployed - unemployable - in fields in which there remains an urgent need for qualified people - unable to survive in Quebec - unable to leave - career destroyed ... at the hands of the government and their croonies ... why .... because as a 'bilingual' anglophone I am considered to be 'culturally inappropriate' to work in my own country - no matter how badly my skillset is required."

    Sorry to sound so direct, but you are either an outright liar, or you have severe problems of your own. Unemployment in Beauce is about 4.4%, one of the lowest in Qc, so if your are bilingual as you claim, and have spent more than four years looking for jobs in fields with a high demand without finding anything, you need help.

    As for your claim to being fired for being "culturally innapropriate", that is just laughable. You'd have a 100% chance of winning a court case and getting your job back, as well as some serious $$$$. Please invent something more plausable, and shame on people believing this, especially in Beauce.

    ReplyDelete
  33. "Sorry to sound so direct, but you are either an outright liar, or you have severe problems of your own."

    Since we're in the business of being direct, I spent two years travelling to the Beauce at least twice a month. If the Quebekkkois ever adopt Klan wear, it might just start at the Beauce. They might have a low unemployment rate but the jobs are reserved for the pure laine. Generally speaking, the further away you travel from Montreal in this province, the higher the warning on the douche meter.
    If you're ethnic, of colour, or anglophone, you are either hated and reviled, or just treated as if you should go away because you don't belong here.
    Distinct culture needs a thorough colon cleansing.

    ReplyDelete
  34. To Anonymous 1:50PM

    "Quebekkkois" eh?
    "Hated and reviled" eh?

    Look in the mirror buddy, with an attitude like that, you certainly deserve it. Unilingual anglophones outside Montreal have as good a chance of getting a job as unilingual francophones in, Alberta or the US.

    ReplyDelete
  35. @ Not The One,

    "Unilingual anglophones outside Montreal have as good a chance of getting a job as unilingual francophones in, Alberta or the US."

    What about unilingual Francophones in rural areas of Ontario or New Brunswick? They certainly can get jobs. And they don't have an English version of the OQLF harassing them or getting them fired.

    Several years ago a Quebecois welder in the Albertan oil patch lost his job because he couldn't speak English. Workplace safety was an issue. His story made the front page of the Journal de Montreal - the shit hit the fan in Quebec. But do the French newspapers ever report on the thousands of Anglo-Quebeckers who have lost their jobs or have been refused jobs because their French isn't good enough? Never. The hypocrisy is outrageous.

    The woman who posted at 9:50 AM stated that she is bilingual, and half of her ancestry is Quebecois, but she still can't find work in the Beauce. She is not a unilingual anglophone. You don't have a reasonable response to her story so you call her a liar. Not surprising.

    ReplyDelete
  36. To Anonymous 8:01PM

    "What about unilingual Francophones in rural areas of Ontario or New Brunswick? They certainly can get jobs. And they don't have an English version of the OQLF harassing them or getting them fired."

    They get lower paying jobs, just like unilingual anglophones outside Montreal do. The best jobs outside Montreal require a very good knowledge of french because the vast majority of clients (and coworkers) speak french... get it? Just like the best jobs in Montreal, rural Ontario and NB require english because a lot of clients are english.

    How many people exactly do the "OLQF get fired" can you direct me to the statistics?

    "Several years ago a Quebecois welder in the Albertan oil patch lost his job because he couldn't speak English. Workplace safety was an issue. His story made the front page of the Journal de Montreal - the shit hit the fan in Quebec."

    IIRC the issue in that particular case was that non-canadian, non-english workers hired by that company got interpreters and special training, while the canadian francophones got squat. In effect, they were discriminated against because they were canadian. And like I said ealier, in Qc we speak french and it should be mandatory to speak good french if you have contact with the public. In practice, as anyone living in Montreal can attest, this is not enforced at all. I wonder how many unilingual french store clerks and nurses there are in Toronto?

    "The woman who posted at 9:50 AM stated that she is bilingual, and half of her ancestry is Quebecois, but she still can't find work in the Beauce. She is not a unilingual anglophone. You don't have a reasonable response to her story so you call her a liar. Not surprising."

    By her own admission, the woman couldn't find a job since 2003 in one of the easiest regions in Qc to find a job, and 2003 was well before the recession. You're telling me a "bilingual" english teacher (and specialist in manifacturing) can't find a job in over SEVEN YEARS? And when she finally had one some shadowy agency fired her for "cultural sensitivity"? What does that even mean?

    Then she didn't sue a case she was 100% assured of winning because she was worried about her reputation in a FIELD IN WHICH SHE HADN'T WORKED IN OVER FIVE YEARS? She is either lying, breathtakingly incompetent or mentally deranged. Her story just doesn't add up at all. Even the francophobes who visit this site should be able to understand that.

    ReplyDelete
  37. "How many people exactly do the "OLQF get fired" can you direct me to the statistics?"

    "...in Qc we speak french and it should be mandatory to speak good french if you have contact with the public. In practice, as anyone living in Montreal can attest, this is not enforced at all."

    I haven't seen the statistics and these probably are not even made public because it would be an embarrassment to the Quebec language Gestapo and the government. But it is easy to infer that thousands of Anglos have been forced out of their jobs by the OQLF. After all, hundreds of thousands of Anglophones have left Quebec since the OQLF was established. And how many English signs do you see in Montreal? Very few. The language laws are enforced zealously.

    "IIRC the issue in that particular case was that non-canadian, non-english workers hired by that company got interpreters and special training, while the canadian francophones got squat. In effect, they were discriminated against because they were canadian."

    Interesting how Quebec nationalists use the term "Canadian" only when it suits their purposes. I’m glad the company in Alberta provided translation to foreign workers but not to the Quebecois. This may be an example of the growing backlash against Quebec elsewhere in Canada. And perhaps the person in charge was an Anglo who had been ethnically cleansed from Quebec. No unilingual Anglos in Quebec are provided with interpreters until they learn French on the job.

    The Quebec government has placed almost insurmountable barriers to workers from other provinces finding work in its construction industry. The same restrictions should be placed on Quebecois in the same industry elsewhere in Canada.

    "Then she didn't sue a case she was 100% assured of winning because she was worried about her reputation in a FIELD IN WHICH SHE HADN'T WORKED IN OVER FIVE YEARS? She is either lying, breathtakingly incompetent or mentally deranged. Her story just doesn't add up at all."

    The Beauce woman’s inability to get hired is completely understandable. She is an outsider living in an area that is mostly rural, pur-laine Quebecois. They are an insular, clannish bunch who are hostile to anyone not of their own ilk.

    I own a cottage near a small Francophone town north-east of Gatineau. When a French-speaking Arab from North Africa bought one of the depanneurs (convenience stores) in town, many local people stopped shopping there because he was a "foreigner."

    I doubt her chances of winning a court case would be very high if she encountered a Quebec nationalist/separatist judge.

    ReplyDelete
  38. You with your allophones, your anglophones and your telephones why can't you leave people alone.
    Speak French or shut up!

    ReplyDelete
  39. Quebec is an embarrassment to English Canadians.... well what about the opposite ! France think you are monsters like the people of Libya.

    ReplyDelete
  40. "You with your allophones, your anglophones..."

    These terms are French in origin.


    "France think you are monsters like the people of Libya."

    In France they think the Quebecois are a bunch of backwards, backwoods hillbillies.

    As someone else mentioned recently, the French would be speaking German today if their liberation in World War II was left up to the Quebecois.

    ReplyDelete
  41. When they are here it is different, they take our jobs (Quebeckers). WHen you live with them in France, pardon me but they think you English people are not exactly on the same level as "égalité/fraternité/liberté, OK ! Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

    ReplyDelete
  42. If, if, if and buts, lots of English buts wouldn't be here at all.

    ReplyDelete