Monday, June 7, 2010

Does Going to French School Make You a Francophone?

One of the saddest aspects about Bill 101 is the effect it has on immigrant families that have a strong background in English, yet don't qualify for English public schooling for their children.  Immigrants are all shuffled off to French schools, with very few exceptions, with proficiency in English being of no consequence. Even those immigrants from English-speaking countries, such as the United States or England who speak nothing but English, are barred from attending English public schools.
The rationale behind this policy is the theory that schooling will act as the great melting pot and will transform students of all stripes and backgrounds into Francophones by the time they leave high school.
That's the theory...

But the reality transcends the model and as much as French language militants wish it were so, the theory fails in practice. For an English family or one that adopts English as the lingua franca of the home, the children will become Anglophones, regardless of the educational path.

********************
I'm a regular customer at a local fruit and vegetable store run by an extended Tamil family in the Notre-Dame-de Grace (NDG) district, an Anglo stronghold in western Montreal. The proprietors of the shop are model immigrants, a credit to themselves and to our collective decision to allow them join us as citizens of this country. Hard working and ambitious, they work long hours for little pay, striving to achieve the Canadian dream.
One day, I asked one of the women who worked there (in her late thirties,) how she came to speak such excellent English.

"What do you mean?" she answered quite indignantly "Sri Lanka may be a poor country, but everyone learns English in school!"
"Excuuussse me..." I answered sheepishly, "But where do your children go to school?"

"They go to French schools, where else?  But we speak only English at home and they will speak both languages when they are finished high school. When they go to university, they will go to McGill!"

Hmmm....

My wife is a client of another enterprising self-employed immigrant, a Filipina who provides in-home foot spa treatments. It's a time to relax and discuss nonsense, much as men talk hockey with their barber.
Their conversations during treatments, about this or that television show or a certain movie demonstrates clearly that English is not only her language of choice, but her culture, as well. Although her children are forced to go to French school, there's no doubt as to which cultural group the family will assimilate to.

Like my Tamil grocer family, her children to will grow up become bilingual Anglophones.
The coercive efforts of a government attempting to mold people into what they do not want to be, can only go so far.

A year or two ago, there was a great flap in one of the French schools as children were admonished for speaking English during recess and play. Tut! Tut!
It's as if the government and the schools wish to reach into the brain of every child and lobotomize the English portion.
But the heart wants, what the heart wants. That's just the way it is.

Immigrant parents who arrive in Quebec with some English, invariably make the choice to align themselves with the Anglophone community. They seek out employment where English can be spoken and adopt the language and culture in the home, believing firmly that giving their children the gift of English is the most important thing that they can do as parents. Forcing the children of these families into French schools will make them bilingual, but will not create Francophones.

This is the essential element that is misunderstood by language militants.  French schooling does not necessarily turn children into Francophones.

The same can be said for Francophone families that send their children to English schools. The children don't transform themselves into Anglophones, but rather become bilingual Francophones. (That is the subject of future post)

A couple of months ago, I caught Sugar Sammy, Montreal's hottest comedian on the French language talk-show, Tout le Monde en Parle.  Shifting effortlessly between English and French, he demonstrated the very best of what bilingual Montrealers are. Of Indian immigrant stock, he was forced to attend French school, but like the families I described above, English was spoken at home.
Despite his long years in the French eduction system, his accent-less English remains much better than his French. He is as thorough an Anglo Quebecker as I, who was born here and enjoyed a complete and comprehensive education in English .
Watch him perform in French and then do an interview in English or even in Punjabi. Amazing language skills!

Regardless of language however, his shtick is clearly from an Anglophone/Ethnic perspective. If you haven't seen his act, you are missing a treat, a comedian who will have you rolling in the aisles. If you are an Anglo, Ethnic or Francophone with a good sense of humour, don't miss it.

If you are a committed sovereignist or sourpuss language militant, stay far away. His opening joke in French, at the Just For Laughs Festival is an example of his of what his background is.
"There's two types of Quebeckers-- There are those Quebekers who are educated, cultivated and well brought up..........and then there's those who voted YES!"
YIKKESS!!!!

The propensity of immigrants who arrive to Quebec with some level of English, to adopt the Anglophone community as their own, is not lost on Quebec's immigration department.  For many years they have prioritized French speaking immigrants in order to stem the flow of immigrants flowing into the Anglo community.

That is why, of all the newly arrived immigrants to Quebec, over 30% come from France, Morocco, Algeria, Lebanon and Tunisia.



Of the immigrants who came to Quebec between 2003 and 2007, (aside from their native tongue,) they also spoke;

French only....................... 23%
English only........................ 18%
French & English .................34%
No French or English..............25%

These figure are quite startling.
With all the government's effort to favour French speaking immigrants, the difference between those who come to Quebec with French only as compared to English only is not that large.

For the 18% of immigrants who come to Quebec each year who speak some English but no French, the chances that their children will become Francophones because of a forced French education is almost zilch.

The children of these families will attend French school and will likely become perfectly bilingual, but Francophones, they will not become.

If ever the saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" applies, it is in the Quebec language debate.

33 comments:

  1. Wow! If the statistics above are accurate, then Quebec «pur laine» can stand on their collective heads and they STILL can't francize the majority of the immigrants.

    I'm on the phones across Canada everyday in Mississagua, ON, and because I'm on a bilingual team, I handle mostly calls in French as French calls are my priority. The unilingual English group I work with take the English calls and the bilingual team takes the overflow. I'm not fluent, I'm proficient. When it comes to the ethnics working in Quebec, some who sense my English is stronger than my French will switch to English, many of them with Arabic names. Most of the North African Arabs (Algeria, Morocco and Egypt) who have worked on my team tend to be at least trilingual (their local Arabic dialect, plus English and French) and between them also speak Spanish, German and even Hebrew! Most picked up English watching American movies or reading English literature.

    Reed Scowen in his book Time to Say Goodbye mentions all Quebec governments, federalist (any such animal?) or separatist, do, and would prefer everyone live in French with the exception of those born in English in the pre-Bill 101 era. They even want the children of pre-Bill 101 Anglophones born post-Bill 101 to live in French, and it just ain't gonna happen!

    If she had it her way, Louise Beaudoin, a rabid fascist and former PQ cabinet minister (weren't they all?), would have put a language cop in every home to ensure the letter of the language laws was being complied with. No thanks, Louise, I don't want tongue troopers under MY bed checking if I snore and make love in French!

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  2. First off, it is ''lingua francA'', not ''franco'', since lingua is feminine.

    Some of the things you say in your post are somewhat disturbing.

    You don't seem to understand what Bill 101 actually stands for but rather chooses, like many Anglophones, to demonize it. Bill 101 in education is not looking to turn Allophones into Francophones, but merely to make sure that newcomers will learn French properly, well enough so that it will enable them to function in the language of the majority in their daily life and ultimately urge them to actively participate in Quebec society. A society whose borders go beyond the Island of Montreal by the way. It will allow an immigrant family to go whale-watching in Tadoussac, for example, without feeling like they're foreigners.

    There is really nothing wrong with Allophones becoming bilingual or even trilingual, as long as their French is fluent enough or in a perfect world, their second best language after their mother tongue. Although most people will *rarely* become perfectly bilingual, unless they show great linguistic skills. Most people will get to become functionally bilingual, at best, which is the case for most Anglophones, self-proclaimed bilingual Francophones and newly-English-speaking Allophones. Functional bilingualism means that one of the two languages will inevitably be weaker than the other, not equal. Sugar Sammy speaks Quebec French quite well, though as you pointed out, one can still tell English is his first language and I doubt he would be able to hold a formal speech in Standard French or write a 5000-word essay at a university level.

    Your two stories, though entirely anecdotal, can sadly be applied to a much larger scale. It would actually give ammunitions to a party like the PQ to argue that many non-French-speaking Allophones choose to side with the Anglophone community. They moreover support the latest statistics showing that most Allophones eagerly send their kids to English CEGEP and university as soon as the ban is lifted, despite the fact that they willingly and consciously chose to immigrate to a predominantly French-speaking society. Because this is really what it's all about...they've not only made the choice to come to Canada, but more specifically to Quebec. And by doing so, are expected to respect the social and linguistic realities of the province in which they've decided to start a new life, just like they would if they chose to move to Milan and would learn Italian or to Osaka and would learn Japanese. It has nothing to do with nationalism, zealous patriotism nor with an evil attempt to slow down the population growth of the Anglophone communities. Let's get real here...

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  3. Sequel...

    What is worrisome, however, is that a growing number (if not most now) of non-French-speaking Allophones make English the language of conservation at the dining table, how can you then expect their kids to maintain a proper level of French if they spend 95% of their time speaking and studying in English? Their French is doomed to be poor. The language they speak at the dining table is a strictly private matter, true, but there still needs to be a balance between private and public life and in many cases, we have found that there isn't.

    "With all the government's effort to favour French speaking immigrants, the difference between those who come to Quebec with French only as compared to English only is not that large."

    The pool of French-speaking immigrants to choose from is only so large. The pool of English-speaking immigrants is tremendous. Besides, if we gave access to the public English system to any native English-speaker of this world, it would be a nightmare trying to establish who truly is a native-speaker of English given the now globalized nature of the language and the fact that many people choose to ''adopt'' English at the expense of their own mother tongue.

    You really need to see Bill 101 as a safety net, as a structure, which is essential due to Quebec's unique geolinguistic/sociolinguistic situation, that is 6-7 million Francophones surrounded by close to 400 million Anglophones. This is huge, humongous pressure on a people that has strived to maintain its culture and language for centuries. Quebec is moreover not the only place in the world that has passed linguistic laws, some even stricter than ours.

    I am writing this to you as a Francophone and fervent defender of the French Language, be it in Quebec or around the world, but also as a *proud* graduate of Champlain St. Lawrence College and Bishop's University. I have deep respect for the English-speaking communities of Quebec and am well aware of their past and present contributions to Quebec society. Be that as it may, asking immigrants to integrate into Quebec society by learning and using French as much as they can is really not asking for the impossible.

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  4. Si vous n'êtes pas content, le reste du Canada vous attend, vous pouvez envoyer vos enfants étudier dans la langue de Shakespeare ! Bandes d'hystériques, vous ignorez que les gens apprennent l'anglais parce que c'est UTILE pas parce qu'ils sont en amour avec la culture et tout le tralala ! Le Québec ne vous demande pas d'aimer le français mais de le parler dans vos interactions soient commerciales, soient professionnelles à l'intérieur des frontières ! Point final, fin de la discussion !

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  5. "Si vous n'êtes pas content, le reste du Canada vous attend, vous pouvez envoyer vos enfants étudier dans la langue de Shakespeare"

    I always enjoy comments from franco-quebecois telling anybody that doesn't agree with them to get out. And in that comment rests the real problem with Quebec. And, the reason why allophones have very little interest in associating with a group that will attempt to shut you down anytime you think outside the cult. I write this from experience, as I was born in Montreal from allophones parents.

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  6. " A society whose borders go beyond the Island of Montreal by the way. It will allow an immigrant family to go whale-watching in Tadoussac, for example, without feeling like they're foreigners."

    This is very funny considering Herouxville.

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  7. "Si vous n'êtes pas content, le reste du Canada vous attend, vous pouvez envoyer vos enfants étudier dans la langue de Shakespeare"

    I think this must be a generic reply used by the ignorant separatists as I have seen this many times. I have to agree that when separatists speak like this it just solidifies the argument against Bills that force people to assimilate. Isn't that what this is all about, lets all be lemmings lets all do the same thing, lets all speak the same language to each other.

    As for that other Anonymous guy tossing that big rosy blanket over Bill 101, we all know what its reason was, and its not working. You of all people throwing around all you education background should be able to see what these bills have done to Quebec's economy and how we have fallen so far down the food chain to the point where no one cares what happens in this province , because we are doing nothing for Canada's economy.

    At some point Francophones and Separatists are going to have to stop blaming Shakespeare for all of the problems in Quebec and realize what they have done is just wrong.

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  8. Steve said, "You of all people throwing around all you education background should be able to see what these bills have done to Quebec's economy and how we have fallen so far down the food chain to the point where no one cares what happens in this province , because we are doing nothing for Canada's economy."

    Completely agree with this.

    I once had a discussion with the instructor in my French course. I pointed out that Bill 101 was one major factor that the number one city in Canada was no longer Montreal but Toronto and that Vancouver and Calgary were catching up with Montreal. My case in point was that the Bank of MONTREAL was now headquartered in Toronto.

    Her reply was that Bill 101 provided much jobs, since now major companies (mainly from ROC and the US) had to provide service in French and to have their documentation translated to French.

    Go figure...

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  9. Editor: “This is the essential element that is misunderstood by language militants. French schooling does not necessarily turn children into Francophones.”

    And language purists still don’t get it. See what Landry had to say. First, he seems to agree that this policy is failing, but his solution is to keep it going. Is this guy capable of thinking logically? And does he really think that these 2 extra years would make any difference whatsoever? He’s delusional.

    http://www.tagtele.com/videos/voir/49844

    10:08

    “Ma constetation par rapport a frequentation obligatioire du cegep francophone viens du fait que nos espoirs ont ete decus. C’est aussi simple et aussi triste que ca. Camille Laurin, Rene Leveque, et moi meme d’auillers pensions a l’epoche que si que les enfant des nos compatritoes issue d’immigration allait aux memes ecoles comme nos enfants, ils iraient aux meme colleges. Et nous nous sommes trompe. Pendant long temps nous avons vraiment cru que ce premier contact avec le le milieu scolaire elementaire et secodaire [OVER 10 YEARS – I REMIND YOU – NOT ENOUGH] ne peuvais pas debouchais que autre chose que le mame phenomene au niveau collegial. Ce n’est pas ca qui est arrive, et la sitiation s’ameliore pas … et le professeur Castoneguay le montre tres bien…

    Alors, ca deveins un devoir, c’est ne meme pas du nationalism. La language officiel et la langue officiel du Quebec c’est le Francais [quick seamless switch from minority in peril to majority] et nous avons besoin du immigrants. Et nous les acceuillions fraternellment. L’immigrntion n’est pas une probleme. Le defi c’est l’integration des immigrants [if integration is a problem, can you claim to be a majority?] Par pour nous, mais d’abord pour eux [can’t they think for themselves?]. La premiere victime de la non-integration sont les immigrants eux memes [cynical ploy – we’re doing it for the immigrants]…

    Alors ca constitute maintenant un devoir. Envers les immigrants et envers le fidelite a ce comme nous sommes de passer au niveau collegial, qui a influence determianant au niveu universitaire aussi [not even close – all immigrants forced to attend cegep in French would almost certainly end up at McGill or Concordia)…

    (..then he talks about the absurdity of offering public education in Quebec in English because Quebec is a French province – he asks what would happen in France, the US, Spain – forgetting to add that in Quebec there is an already existing system of English schools, so there is no need to build them for immigrants, and that immigrants are themselves tax payers, so they contribute eto the public education system…HERE HE’S DOING THE “WE’RE JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE” BIT)

    12:52:

    [here he goes into the reasons of how extending 101 to cegeps may actually help the French]

    “Le niveau collegial c’est un niveau crucial dans la vie. C’est au college seuvent qu’on choissi son conjoint ou sa conjointe. C’est pas negligible. C’est au college qu’on chosi l’engagement politique [THE REAL REASON FOR 101’s EXTENSION. THE ONLY REASON.], qu’on reflechi au destin du Quebec. Et en tout respect pour les institutions Anglophones…je ne peux pas croire que l’atmosphere dans une campagne electoral ou nastioanl du Quebec est le meme a Dawson qu’a Vieux montreal. En tout respect pour Dawson, je ne peux pas croire qu’on lis autant le devoir, la presse, le journal de Montreal a Vanier que’au cegep de Joliette. Et c’est cruciale… L’enseigner de l’histoire - est-ce que Rene Leveque est traite de meme facon que Pierre Tredeau dans ces colleges que j’ai mentione? En tout respect, on est dans une democracie, mais une democracie ne veut pas dire naivite. Et tolerance ne veut pas dire l’axism (???) .”



    So it’s all political. All POLITICAL.

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  10. Anonymous, 6:46AM: “Bill 101 in education is not looking to turn Allophones into Francophones, but merely to make sure that newcomers will learn French properly, well enough so that it will enable them to function in the language of the majority in their daily life and ultimately urge them to actively participate in Quebec society”

    This is a lie. Otherwise, the push to extend 101 to cegeps would not make sense because by then all immigrant kids DO speak French. So there is no need to push 101 any further, but it is being pushed further.

    Extension of 101 to cegep is a last ditch effort to get these kids to think like Francophones. Because 10 years of primary/secondary schooling didn’t do the job.

    See the last paragraph of what I transcribed from Landry’s speech. There is the reason for all this.

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  11. What is to be done? French-Quebec is facing a dilemma. If they let in large numbers of immigrants they gradually lose their language and character. The bulk of immigrants, even with bill 101, seem to gravitate towards the Anglo community. If they don't have lots of immigrants their share of the population in relation to the rest of Canada gradually shrinks. Just look at the 30 new seats being created outside Quebec. I see no good answer here. Historically almost all immigrants to Canada eventually became English-speakers. Even today with bill 101, I don't think its very different. What kept Francophones relevant after 1867 was their high fertility rates. I don't see any return to this. Probably Quebec's best strategy would have been to have supported immigration-restrictionist parties. In fact they actually did the opposite.

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  12. @adski:

    This is not a lie, this is reality. Just get on with it.

    I've never said I agreed to Bill 101 being extended to CEGEP. In fact, I totally disagree. Besides, it won't be done, especially not as long as the Liberals are in power.

    But I already see there's no point arguing in this blog.

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  13. "You really need to see Bill 101 as a safety net, as a structure, which is essential due to Quebec's unique geolinguistic/sociolinguistic situation, that is 6-7 million Francophones surrounded by close to 400 million Anglophones. This is huge, humongous pressure on a people that has strived to maintain its culture and language for centuries."

    The Francophone population of Quebec survived for over 200 years without Bill 101. There are significant Francophone populations in the provinces of New Brunswick and Ontario and they have not disappeared despite that fact that they do not have laws like Bill 101 "protecting" them.
    By passing such a draconian law, Quebec has lost its soul and has effectively become a fascist police state. This law has also resulted in the ethnic cleansing of Quebec's minority anglophone community, which is unfortunately considered a good thing by many Quebecois, such as the "Shakespeare" commentator.

    I wonder how Quebecois would react if the native populations of Quebec tried to preserve their (much more) endangered languages and cultures by restricting and banning French on their reserves?

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  14. This is the reality.

    Quebec stayed French because they had more kids.

    Once they stopped having enough kids, that's when they felt the need to adopt language laws to "preserve the French language".

    Demographics predict the future.

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  15. To Anglo Bashers;

    "The Francophone population of Quebec survived for over 200 years without bill 101"...

    BUT QUEBEC HAD MUCH, MUCH, HIGHER BIRTH RATES THEN.

    "There are significant populations of Francophones in New Brunswick and Ontario"....

    Both communities are demographically in serious decline. In a few more generations the Franco-Ontarian community will be gone. A true way to measure the strength of French would be to ask how many UNILINGUAL FRANCOPHONES are there OUTSIDE Quebec. Just 50,000. Remember that when the federal government spouts its nonsense about a "million French-Canadians outside Quebec".

    The Toronto guy.

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  16. 2 of 2:

    Other defeated portions of Bill 101 included the right for corporations to have their cases be heard in English, and for all government legislation and statutes to be equally official in both English and French. The intention of Section 11 was to allow corporations to plead in English if, AND ONLY IF, all parties to the action so agreed, and various sections of Bill 101 stated only French versions of statutes and legislation were official.

    Interestingly, when the High Kangaroo Court ruled versions in both languages carried official status, all other provinces were ruled to have to allow both versions of their legislation as official, and to duly translate their legislation where statutes were not written in both languages.

    As for Troy's commentary yesterday at 2:51PM, the French teacher was right. Bill 101 became the key to make-work projects in creating French language service jobs and document translation; furthermore, Scowen has stated, and comments on this blog have correctly pointed out that while Quebec's economy has deteriorated from the mass exodus of minorities, it is Francophones who are getting the bigger piece of this smaller economy.

    Time and time again, economic statistics have shown bilingual Francophones have gained the most affluence over the last 50 years, followed by bilingual Anglophones. The biggest losers are those who are unilingual, Anglophones mostly, followed by Francophones. Despite French language legislation of all numbers and titles, intended to support and protect Francophones and do nothing for Anglophones, still does not do a very good job of protecting those who know French alone! Premier Goldilocks finally conceded and is allowing English as a second language to be introduced at an earlier grade, but only because it is Francophones who have demanded this due to the proven economic benefits. He also agreed to loosen the formerly tight restrictions of schools and their boards having to receive express written permission of the Minister of Education to introduce English as a second language. To Anglophones and English instructional schools, NO concessions!

    Finally, I found that article by Michel David that I discussed in a commentary from a blog last week. He proposes Montreal should become a city/state: http://www.montrealcitystate.ca/index_en.html
    The website is available in both English and French.

    I'm also adding the link mentioned last week entitled "Why Canada Must End" by Tony Kondaks. His free on-line book proposes how making Montreal a "special administrative region" not unlike Hong Kong in China would enable Quebec to finally achieve independence, and his hypothesis to get the minorities to come onside with separatists. I read it, found a lot of his research very interesting, but I also believe achieving separation in this way is a pipedream. Nevertheless, here it is again:
    http://www.whycanadamustend.com/Cover.htm

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  17. 1 of 2:

    Hi again all!

    I'm the first posting on this editorial. Having read University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee Professor Marc V. Levine's book, "The Reconquest of Montreal", one thing that should be mentioned that a lot of the reason for the language war started with education.

    Certainly the ridiculously paranoid separatists worried about their whole world going English, and this is where the perceived problem stemmed. Because of this, job protection became the fuel for the fear--protecting the jobs of FRENCH-SPEAKING TEACHERS!

    Indubitably, most immigrants and other Allophones did indeed favour English instruction over French because of continental demographics. As this editorial indicates, NOTHING, BUT NOTHING HAS CHANGED since the Quiet Revolution started a half century ago! That's notwithstanding everything legislated to "protect" French all Quebec governing parties have done since the mid 1970s has changed.

    Reed Scowen's book "Time to Say Goodbye" states all Quebec governments, be they self-pronounced federalists or confirmed separatists, would prefer all newcomers for the last fifty years, and those who may come in the future, live in French. Same goes for the children born in post-Bill 101 Quebec.

    Scowen, a former MNA and high-ranking Quebec and federal civil servant, is respected by me in his writings thanks to his inside knowledge and experiences. He talks about the «Anglophones de souche», or English who have been in Quebec a long time, as a dying breed that will not be replaced. This single group just happened to exist at the time of the language turmoil during the decade from the later 1960s through the late 1970s.

    They're allowing this one designated group the opportunity to die in English after having been born in English before the Quiet Revolution started. Bill 101 was only intended to extend the courtesy of access to English language schooling to the children of «Anglophones de souche», i.e. the children whose parents received ALL their elementary education IN QUEBEC ONLY, in English. Other provinces didn't count. That was extended to children who came to Quebec from other provinces after that, and other sections of Bill 101, were challenged in the High Kangaroo Court and found to be unconstitutional.

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  18. Anglo Bashers and Suzanne:

    Congrats! You both hit the nail on the head. Michel Gratton, in his book "French Canadians" did point out it was «La révenche des berceaux», i.e., Revenge of the Cradles, that gave the Catholic French speakers their power. They were defeated in the Battle of the Plains of Abraham in 1759 at a time when there was more of a balance between English and French speakers.

    The Roman Catholic church initially fueled the fires of fear and ignorance. If their parishioners didn't increase their power base through numbership, all was lost for them. Over time, nationalist leaders fed the fires to keep the obedient parishioners ignorant and pregnant. In Mordecai Richler's book "Oh Canada! Oh Quebec", Richler was heavily criticized for referring to the womenfolk of these families as sows, but that is EXACTLY what they were, like it or not! Maybe a more politically correct choice of semantics is babymaking machines. Take your pick.

    The French-speaking population was duped, like it or not, from 1759 with the defeat on the Plains of Abraham, until 1959 with, mercifully, the sudden death of Quebec's most despotic premier of them all, Maurice Duplessis. 1759 to 1959 is EXACTLY 200 years--TWO CENTURIES!

    Suddenly with the onslaught of the 1960s, the babymaking factory screeched to a trickle, to the point where Quebec dropped to the second lowest birthrate in the Western Hemisphere, to the point where churches were being converted to lofts, restaurants and structures for other uses, and because of that freefall in the number of parishioners, Quebec now doesn't even produce enough nuns, priests and other clergy officials to support the remaining churches that have to date survived.

    Small wonder Quebec is so far behind the times. It was kept in suspended animation for 200 years! Anglo Bashers, Suzanne, take a little bow!

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  19. @ Anglo Bashers:

    And do you even know why they managed to keep French alive for 200 years without Bill 101?

    One short 'n sweet answer: the Catholic Church and consequently, always lots and lots and lots of babies as Suzanne pointed out.

    The Brits allowed French Canadians to keep their language and faith 1) because they were clearly outnumbered in the THEN New France to try for assimilation - though plans and reports had been made to assimilate them (read The Durham Report) - 2) as long as priests told their churchgoers (which was everyone back then) to abide by the British Regime.

    Now that most industrialized countries have stopped making lots and lots and lots of babies (including Anglo Quebecers who still don't realize that the reason SOME of their schools (not all) are getting emptier and emptier is also because their community makes less babies), we need another safety net.

    By the way, French-speaking Acadians keep denouncing time and again the fact that they have a hard time getting services in French in their own province. French is anything but strong in Franco Ontarian communities, but maybe if you knew any...

    ethnic cleansing of Anglo Quebecers? Seriously...Anglo Quebecers are the best treated linguistic minority in this whole country! Get real...and as I said, to me they're Quebecers just like any others...plus their services and rights are guaranteed by law through and through.

    As for the Natives, there are bilingual Huron/French signs in Quebec City's Huron Reserve. Besides, most native languages are barely ever spoken anymore (our fault and by ''our'' I mean Canadians' in general - Anglos and Francos alike), most Quebec Natives speak English as their first language now anyway, some will speak French.

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  20. ''By passing such a draconian law, Quebec has lost its soul and has effectively become a fascist police state. This law has also resulted in the ethnic cleansing of Quebec's minority anglophone community, which is unfortunately considered a good thing by many Quebecois, such as the "Shakespeare" commentator.'' Nettoyage ethnique et puis quoi encore ?! You sound like having a big problem of perception !

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  21. "ethnic cleansing of Anglo Quebecers? Seriously...Anglo Quebecers are the best treated linguistic minority in this whole country! Get real...and as I said, to me they're Quebecers just like any others..."

    Many Quebec nationalists also say that Anglos in Quebec are the best treated minority in the WORLD. Both statements are simply untrue. If Anglos are so well treated, why have hundreds of thousands of them departed from Quebec in the past several decades? The Anglophone community has been devastated.

    Anglos may be Quebecers just like any others in your opinion, but not in the opinion of most Francophones...certainly not enough to be included in the Fete Nationale celebrations...

    "French is anything but strong in Franco Ontarian communities, but maybe if you knew any..."

    I was born and raised in Quebec but I moved to Ottawa several years ago as soon as I had the opportunity to do so. It was the single best decision I have ever made. I do know Francophones here and they definitely are better treated than Anglos in Quebec. They receive all government services in French from both the city of Ottawa and from the province of Ontario. All road signs are bilingual. They also have full access to education in French. If they want to start a business, they can give it a French name, run it in French, with Francophone employees, and advertise with French signage without being harassed by some neo-Nazi language police. Their representation in the civil service at all levels is much higher than their proportion of the population. There are very few bilingual Anglos working in government jobs in Quebec.

    There has never been a mass exodus of Francophones from Ontario and New Brunswick to Quebec.

    "As for the Natives, there are bilingual Huron/French signs in Quebec City's Huron Reserve."

    The only reason there are bilingual signs on Native reserves in Quebec is because Bill 101 does not apply to them. At least the demagogues who introduced the law had the decency to exclude the indigenous people. If the Natives ever put restrictions on the French language on their reserves for whatever reason, I'm sure there would be an uproar among Quebecois. The authorities would probably send in the Surete du Quebec (provincial police) like they did during the Oka crisis. Maybe the Indians would kick their butts again too...

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  22. Vive le Québec libre et Vive Mc Gill français !!:) Attention à la crise d'urticaire, pauvres Rhodésiens !

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  23. With all due respect to immigrants from anywhere, there is one aspect that Quebec misses with its immigration policy. That is the quality of immigrants.

    With French-first policy, Quebec basically limits itself to the pool of immigrants. Immigrants who have somewhat knowledge of French mainly come from the Maghreb, sub-Saharan Africa, Haiti, Lebanon, Romania and a bit of other Europe. Immigrants from South, East, South-East Asia, Australia, NZ, UK, USA do not really consider Quebec as a destination except to study and if they get employment offer from an Anglophone company.

    Now if we compare the "quality" of the immigrants, there is really no comparison. Indian and Chinese immigrants count as the most successful ethnic communities in ROC and USA. They come here with advance degrees and experience. India and China are both modern, hi-tech country with world class industry and research. Their problem is that salary and living standard are quite low over there.

    Again, no disrespect to ethnic communities, but IMHO Asian immigrants are generally more educated, more experienced and sometimes wealthier than African or Mid-Eastern immigrants.

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  24. Dear Mr. Troy,

    All I have to say about your thinking is that is simply racist !The problem of immigration is maybe more the recognition of the degrees than your sentences stain of prejudge. English doesn't mean successful ! You just have to watch the ancient english colonies !

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  25. Hi 3:07 PM Anonymous,

    So you say I am racist. Tell me where I am racist. I am simply stating the facts. It is a fact that there are more first and second generation immigrants with Chinese and Indian heritage in high-paid industry than those with African, Mid-Eastern or Haitian heritage. The same goes to those with PhDs, MDs or MBAs.

    So you say for me to watch "ancient english colonies" for measure of success. So I give you Australia, New Zealand and Singapore. Please give me former or current French colonies that can match those countries.

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  26. ''So I give you Australia, New Zealand and Singapore. Please give me former or current French colonies that can match those countries. ''

    All the colonies you name are strangefully white, what about Jamaica, Ghana, India, Pakista, Uganda, and a lot more ? It's sound racist because all you name is the nearest of the original english society, kind of descendants.

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  27. All immigrants that come here are selected for their high level of education. Maybe we should recognize that better in the facts ! When it's time to hire them !

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  28. @ anonymous at 8:47 & 8:49 am:

    "All the colonies you name are strangefully white"

    Seventy-five percent of the people of Singapore are of Chinese descent. There is only a very small population of whites.

    "All immigrants that come here are selected for their high level of education"

    You must be joking! Most of the immigrants that come here from Haiti and African countries are poorly educated. And if I recall correctly, you are an immigrant too, and you are obviously very uneducated.

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  29. Alright, if that is what you want, I will play.

    You said that Australia and New Zealand were white, and you were right. However, as Anglo Bashers pointed out, Singapore was not. There is so few (if any) white Singaporean citizen.

    Okay. Now I will give you Singapore, Malaysia, India, South Africa. Please remember that you have not given me the answer. Kindly tell me former or current French colonies that can match them.

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  30. TO THE TORONTO GUY:
    If you refuse to speak French, you are not an intellectual, and unwilling to bring a reform, try to understand the others. The French in Quebec are fighting since 400 years to keep their traditions, their language and their culture. The politicians didn't represent them well. Finally yes the French are from a different scholastic and religion than yourself. University of Toronto has many courses to inform you before you argue without a reason against the French.

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  31. TO SEQUEL:
    There is something wrong with what you say, an awful self-centered thought:
    there is more than speak a language at home.
    We read, we write, we acquire knowledge and we have the right to become human, dance explore etc.. and be people. Our language is our life, our mind, our heart, our culture. Do you know what it is to be forced to speak another language and live by the values of others ?????????????
    THE POVERTY OF A LANGUAGE IS NOT IN THE ONE WHO SPEAKS IT, BUT IN THE POVERTY OF THE PERSON'S MOIND WHO REFUSES US TO SPEAK AND LIVE IN IT.
    In order to evolve we need to be together, speak our language and be together.... get it !!! so stop the strangulation! Enough of it.
    The Basque country kill for it ! and they are speaking their language in Eukadia, or Donastia.

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  32. The 101 theory failed in our family. My husband and I (both kids of Italian immigrants) went to English school. To give our kids the opportunity to have a crack at jobs at Hydro Quebec or the Quebec civil service, we decided to send them to French school. Our oldest lasted until Grade 8; our 2 youngest until Grade 5 and 6. Always average students with few friends, all three blossomed in English school. They never felt that they fit in even though they spoke French very well. They were never really able to perform to their potential. They hated to read and now love to read. They explain that French books are 'lame". They were often admonished for speaking English to other Anglos in the school yard.

    They have never been happier in English school and would never go back.

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  33. You know, it also works the other way. Just because somebody learns English fluently does not necessarily turn that person into an Anglophone. Yet from what I read here, the Quebec language militant fight to keep native French speakers from learning English, as if doing so would turn them into one of THEM like victims in horror movies that are bitten by zombies and doomed to become zombies themselves.

    What is so terribly wrong about giving Quebecois the chance to learn English in ADDITION to rather than INSTEAD of French?

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