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| His promise to learn French... a promise not kept |
He had a minder trailing along with him (someone I like and respect, so I won't mention her name) to help intercept any uncomfortable questions and conversations and to answer any questions that might arise in French since he could not understand a word.
I asked him if it was true that he couldn't speak French to which his lovely minder jumped in to explain that because of a childhood hearing infirmity, Steinberg could never learn French. She assured me that now that he had secured a cochlear implant he would undertake to learn the language of Molliere should he be elected.
How on Earth could somebody in this day and age present himself as a potential mayoral candidate in Quebec without speaking French?
Outrageous....
I was actually stunned that he had the chutzpah to run.
Not being a shy fellow I told him in no uncertain terms that he was unfit to serve and that his infirmity disqualified him from consideration.
While his minder played the infirmity card once again I told her that I could not vote for somebody who could not read or write because of dyslexia and I sure as Hell couldn't vote for someone who could not speak French.
You can imagine that the two of them looked at me as some kind of racist or insensitive lout as they shuffled off my porch rather sheepishly.
Through sheer effort and overwhelming resources, William Steinberg won the mayoralty, turning a sleepy part-time job into a full-time obsession for someone with too much free time and boatloads of money.
Now I'm not late to this debate, back in 2009 I wrote a piece on the mayor which pretty much summarized what I'm repeating here.
"Although Mr. Steinberg is somewhat deaf, he speaks English just fine. The truth is that he has lived a sheltered life of privilege and has never bothered to learn French, simply because he never needed to. Mr Steinberg has invoked the 'infirmity' excuse as successfully as a university co-ed, claiming 'womens' problems' in order to get out of a big test." Read: Hampstead's Unilingual Mayor
The city may have the highest density of Jewish residents of any town in Canada and boy, they are rich.For those who never heard of Hampstead, it is a tiny, yet extremely wealthy sleepy suburb enclaved tightly between Cote Saint-Luc and Montreal's Snowdon district. The town which is less than two square kilometers is home to zero businesses or stores and it's 7,000 residents live in about 2,500 expensive homes ranging from a million dollars in value up to five million and more, with municipal taxes ranging from over $10,000 to $50,000 and more per home.
Hampstead infamous for large homes and English-only STOP signs
Lise Ravary proclaimed in the Gazette a few days ago that up to 20% of the residents are Francophones, but this just isn't true. While the city's Jewish residents who come from Morocco may speak French, their kids go to private Jewish schools that are English. The lingua franca of the city is 100% English and the French signs and notices are merely formalities forced upon the city by Bill 101.
Hampstead is, of course, the least diverse city or town on the island of Montreal.
The 275 Filipino and Black residents who reside there represent 'the help' and of Canada' native population, there are of course zero residents.
As of late, there is an interesting Asian influx, where a significant percentage of resales are going to wealthy mainland Chinese families seeking a safe haven for their money. Nobody seems particularly perturbed, they are good neighbours with many using their million dollar homes for summer vacation only.
At any rate, if Mayor Steinberg committed a fault in his injudicious pronouncement about 'ethnic cleansing' it is that it has brought unwanted attention to our sleepy little hideaway, which for the longest time slid under the raider of those Quebec nationalists protesting White/English/Jewish privilege.
Make no mistake about Hampstead, the city is the most federalist town in Quebec, with the number of citizens voting for YES in the referendum restricted to as many as you can count on your fingers.
When it comes to provincial voting take a look at the choice this Hampstead neighbourhood made in the last election.
Yup, 95.6% of those Hampstead voters chose the Liberal party, a percentage that would make Joseph Stalin or Kim Jung Un jealous.
It isn't surprising that the mayor has remained steadfast in refusing to apologize for his remarks, he has the benefit of being unable to understand the most vocal of his critics, not speaking French that is.
For him, the protests are of no consequence having the proverbial hard head of privilege while living in his ivory tower,
If Hamspteaders reject the mayor next election it won't be for his remarks about ethnic cleansing, it will be because of the unwanted publicity that he brought down on a town that just wants to fly under the radar.
And so the good mayor in a pique of resistance has called a special meeting of Hampstead city council for Monday where he will seek support for his mayoralty.
No, he won't ask for a resolution backing his use of the term 'ethnic cleansing," he is not that dumb.
What he will do is cleverly ask council for some resolution opposing Bill 21 and armed with a positive result he will brandish it as a vote of confidence.
The question now is whether the council members will fall for his ploy and give him what he seeks, a false vote of confidence.
It would take guts to defy the mayor, he is all-powerful in the town and refusing to take part in the farcical vote would register their individual disapproval and represent an official falling out with the mayor.
Will council members do the right thing or will they go along with the mayor's charade?
I'm not sure, but the fact that the mayor is proceeding with the gambit indicates to me that he's confident that Hampstead city council is his to control, like a pimp reigning supreme over his bitches.
95.6% liberal eh? That's what the separatists would call "illegitimate" and "borderline illegal"
ReplyDeleteHow dare you participate in democracy when you don't have the same opinions as someone from Gaspé?
https://youtu.be/cCFHvNOlraM?t=79
Maudit vote ethnique.
How is it that a unilingual anglo can be a successful mayor in Quebec?
ReplyDeleteBecause he can.
Philip's response? Outrage...and to the then-potential mayor and his companion several years ago, Philip observes: "You can imagine that the two of them looked at me as some kind of racist or insensitive lout as they shuffled off my porch rather sheepishly."
Well, they were half right.
With all due respect, Philip, if you consider your stance, it is and was "racist"...and there's no other word to explain it your attitude and response.
It is "racist" because for you to be concerned with Steinberg's unilingualism, it can only be because you somehow believe that it is a necessity - for either practical reasons or reasons of respect -- that a person of such standing as a mayor be able to speak the language of the majority. As if what language the majority of a given population speaks requires one to respect it. And that this respect means one must learn the language (I am going to ignore the consideration of "necessity" as a reason to learn French because, obviously, in this instance, there has not been nor is there any necessity for this man to learn French because he hasn't needed to in order to discharge the duties of his job as mayor up to now).
But if "respecting the language of the majority" is a moral requirement, then what does that say about francophones in general (or, for that matter, anglophones?)? Wherever the ancestors of today's francophones who first came to Quebec hundreds of years ago landed the language of the majority was an Aboriginal language (Huron, or Cree, etc.). Those original settlers didn't say: "hey, Huron is the language of the majority; therefore we will, in our public interactions, utilize Huron as the common language and restrict French to using it at home." No, they imposed their minority French language on the majority -- often at the end of a musket barrel -- and didn't think twice about "disrespecting" any established majority's language.
And, lo and behold, we also find that free speech (i.e., freedom of expression) is a protected right in both the Canadian and Quebec charters of rights. And there is nothing more basic than language and the language we choose to speak as an example of free speech.
There is therefore no historical or legal or moral basis for anyone to learn the language of a majority in order to render respect for that majority. If this were so, we would, today, declare an aboriginal language as the official Quebec language, conduct all government business in that language, and provide it as the second language to learn in all schools. Surely, this would be the least we could do to show our tolerance and love for our fellow man...and, of course, some retroactive respect for a language that should have been properly treated centuries ago.
So, Philip, if you're that keen on imposing your misplaced ideal of respect on others as a condition for how they express their freedom of speech, you should be, first, as a priority, demanding the adoption of an aboriginal language as someone's second langauge...NOT the language of Moliere or Shakespeare, which are, of course, the languages of the evil White Europeans.
But you don't. And perhaps the reason you don't and, instead, feign outrage over Steinberg's inability to learn or speak French is, as you yourself cynically suggest, due to racism. It's okay to respect a White European language but who cares about a native's language anyway?
And, of course, we haven't even addressed the issue of how most of these aboriginal languages are on the verge of extinction, many of which have only a few speakers left while French enjoys millions of speakers in Quebec and across the world...
I don't usually respond to comments but will make an exception this time.
DeleteSpeaking the language of the majority for a minority mayor isn't about respect or morality, it is about necessity.
The mayor is required to interact with provincial government agencies and regional committees that operate in French. That is the reality in Quebec.
I have no misplaced ideal of respect at all, you are wrongly substituting an esoteric 'respect' issue with the practical impediment that I refer to..
I wonder how a small town in Ontario would fare with a unilingual French-speaking mayor or a British Columbia town with a unilingual Chinese-speaking mayor. It's a burdensome handicap.
Like i said, I wouldn't vote for a mayor who could not read or write because the handicap makes him or her unsuitable for the job. Not speaking English for an Ontario or BC mayor is the same disqualifying factor.
You are misplacing respect and morality for necessity and practicality.
As for being unsympathetic to minority languages dying out, I am a fluent Yiddish speaker and am living first hand the death of a beautiful language, one that is valuable and influential.
I shall bore you with one last Yiddish anecdote of mine.
On a trip to Israel in the 70's during the airlift of Russian Jews which allowed for a window to emigrate, my wife and I were invited to greet an airplane load of Russians arriving at the airport.
As the new 'olim' descended onto the tarmac I found the only way to communicate was through Yiddish with some of the elder babushkas.
I remarked to my wife that I never heard Yiddish spoken with a Russian accent and comically, a few minutes later an elderly Russian woman whom I was talking to remarked that she never heard Yiddish spoken with my Polish accent.....
It is sad to see the language go, so I hope you understand that I am indeed sensitive to the problem.
To require an interpreter to carry on normal duties interacting on different levels is
Wikipedia's entry for Hampstead, Quebec tells us that William Steinberg was elected mayor for a third term on November 2, 2013. If he is still mayor, I presume then that he is now in his fourth or fifth term? That's plenty of time, I imagine, for him, his constituents, and the voters of Hampstead to determine whether he is capable of interacting in a satisfactory manner with the Quebec government. And, of course, whether speaking French is a necessity for him and, by extension, his constituents. And I'd conclude that he has not been deemed "disqualified" by those constituents seeing how he keeps getting reelected again and again.
DeleteWhen, pray tell, will Philip realize the same thing?
Quebec -- particularly the francophone majority -- should be encouraging MORE unilingual anglophones to come and work, invest, study, and live in unilingual English in Quebec. I would tell you why, Philip, but I've done so countless times on this forum and one more time won't make a difference, I suppose, if you haven't understood me by now (or perhaps you have but simply disagree). In a nutshell, the more unilingual anglophones that feel comfortable coming to Quebec, the better the chance that the French language will be preserved and promoted in Quebec.
I applaud Mayor Steinberg's unilingualism and only hope that there are more like him that choose to seek public office.
When the Equality Party had four MNAs in Quebec City, two of them spoke French: Robert Libman and Richard Holden. Holden's French wasn't perfect but acceptable and he spoke in either of the two official languages of Quebec's National Assembly throughout the time he was there (and, indeed, once he became a PQ MNA, he continued to often speak in English! Probably a first for a pequiste!). Robert Libman made a point of speaking both languages at all times.
Gordon Atkinson's French was non-existent to poor. However, when he spoke in the National Assembly (and much less frequently during committees), he made a point of peppering his speeches with both official languages. BUT HE WASTED HOUR UPON HOUR OF HIS TIME WORKING ON, TRANSLATING (BY HIS SECRETARY), AND MEMORIZING THE FRENCH PARTS OF HIS SPEECHES. Time that could have been better spent working on matters that concerned his constituents.
However, even though he understood and spoke French, Neil Cameron spoke virtually all of the time in unilingual English...and he had no guilt or doubts that he was doing the right thing.
Again, I applaud Mayor Steinberg.
Tony above wrote: "I applaud Mayor Steinberg" and so do I. He is speaking one of the two official languages of Canada, and if he appeases the (vast) majority of his electorate, score one for him!
DeleteActually, Phil, I'm absolutely gobsmacked at this entire article, and that you actually wrote it. Under the Canadian Constitution, he and MNAs, as well as MPs and MLAs of other provincial and territorial legislatures are free to address their respective houses in either English or French. You did mention that it's neither practical nor commonplace to do so, but that's beside the point.
I personally deal with Hampsteadians and Côte-St-Luckers at arm's length until they earn my trust for they have many times looked down their noses dealing with where this Jew was born and then raised.
While there is merit in your stating knowing French is a necessity, it's not if the electorate/townsfolk are willing to let him govern and, if necessary, hire a translator. The Chinese example is a poor one because one must deal in either English or French. These are official languages, in Quebec and every other province and territory making up this land. Neither Chinese, Spanish nor any other language of the world have official status here. That you speak Yiddish is very nice, but do your children? My four grandparents' mother tongue was Yiddish. My father spoke and wrote it fluently, my mother just spoke it functionally. Neither spoke Hebrew, and my father was only able to recite scriptural Hebrew through rote memory. So much for "heritage" languages. Neither my parents, nor most of the parents of my friends and peers taught and spoke Yiddish so aside for a few words or expressions, almost none of us know it even functionally.
I can't help but wonder why we were not taught Yiddish other than our parents didn't see its importance, or worse yet, they used it as a language barrier. I sadly perceive it as the latter. Where there is a certain loss to not knowing it on the one hand, what practical use has it on the other? European countries are geographically smaller than Canada and the U.S., and so Europeans were always a couple of hours from encountering people speaking different languages. Leave Quebec and you'll travel around the rest of Canada and the U.S. speaking English for days, weeks and months!
I have to agree with Tony and Sauga. While it would undoubtedly be useful if he was bilingual, clearly, his constituents don't view it as a necessity or he wouldn't keep getting re-elected. It obviously matters deeply to you, Philip, so you don't vote for him.
DeleteWell it shows a certain lack of respect to not even bother trying to speak the main language in Quebec. And as Philip points out I am sure it makes life more complicated when he has to deal with anyone in the Quebec government or so on. It also reinforces the image of the rich english enclave which cuts itself off from the rest of the province. Because its a very wealthy city those people can get away with having a unilingual mayor as its citizens don't really need any help from the government.
ReplyDeleteHowever in a city with many lower income people I think it would be critical to have someone who could converse with the province and other agencies.
The whole rise of the PQ back in the 1960s and 1970s was largely in response to the anglo minority more or less ignoring the francophone majority. Its the same story we see over and over in many countries..a rich minority with too much power and influence at the expense of the poorer majority..and then one day the poor revolt. So now we have gone to the other extreme where francophones still think all anglos are rich..hence places like Hampstead only act to reinforce this unfair stereotype.
1 of 2:
Deletecomp: You wrote "it shows a certain lack of respect to not even bother trying to speak the main language in Quebec." My response: Tsk tsk! In all fairness, I have improved my French over the years OUTSIDE Quebec. I got jobs asking for French although back then functional French was good enough and it enabled me to improve my French. Good for me.
Growing up in Quebec, however, was a strain because English became frowned upon and there were those who asked questions in English and got responses on-point, i.e., the French speaker understood the question but wouldn't respond in English. I saw my language being taken down off signs. I met people who became rude or simply gave dirty looks because language legislation legitimized this behaviour.
You also wrote "...I am sure it makes life more complicated when he has to deal with anyone in the Quebec government..." That's true, but so what? He can have translators, and besides, in Montreal enough people already know English, so next! Language legislation has done more to isolate unilingual French Québécois than anything else. How many go to Maine, Wildwood Beach, NJ, Florida, etc. and many don't speak English. They go with people who do else it's HEY...WE SPEAK AMERICAN HERE!
I went to British Colony Antigua over a year ago and heard lots of French. Their salvation was the tour operator had French speaking reps available. The locals? Fuggedaboudit! Simply put, it can be done.
You wrote "francophones still think all anglos are rich..." Stupid is what stupid does, so racists are what racists do. There's Hampstead and there are other English speaking enclaves that aren't so rich. All you're doing is legitimizing their ignorance. I can't help it if there are stupid people in the world. There is no shortage of ignoramuses in the world, and there never will be.
Interestingly, Phil several years ago wrote an article on how there are/were at that time about 17 billionaires in Quebec. Six were Jewish, seven, maybe eight were Francophones and the rest were "les autres". There are about 90,000 Jews in Quebec and six million Francophones, ergo one in fifteen thousand billionaires are/were Jewish while the Francophone number was about one in 800,000!
2 of 2:
DeleteThis Anglophones controlling Quebec was partially a misnomer, and the rest was because the Roman Catholic Church, an evil incarnate as far as I'm concerned, oppressed the French speaking majority for 200 years so it was they who were the true oppressors. Once the ignorant majority realized how duped they were for two centuries, the majority of them abandoned the church fast as the speed of light. I heard on the news several years ago it is latinos from Central and South America who are replacing otherwise French speakers who don't fill the voids in the Church. My university buddy's brother died back in December here in Toronto. I attended the funeral at a Catholic church, and a fellow from Mexico introduced himself to us at the following reception learning to be a priest. Upon completion of his training, he's being sent to Memphis, TN.
Between the brainwashing of the masses, cruelty in residential schools, perversion in orphanages, pedophilia of choir boys and other sordid acts of the Roman Catholic Church, is it any wonder the Church is declining. Now Quebec is forbidding its practice along with all other religions in the public service, and to be sure it will spread to the public in general and in private facilities as well...probably except for Catholicism.
Hell, look at how people are donating millions upon millions of dollars to restore a friggin' building in Paris. FOLKS!...It's a building!...how about donating that money to help the poorest of the poor eat a decent meal? The hateful speeches weekly on radio spewed by the likes of Abbé Lionel Groulx and other rabid bigots back in those days are what triggered the ignorance...well it's time to LEARN right from wrong, yet 60 years after la révolution tranquille and the beat of ignorance goes on!...in Quebec and around the world.
complicated writes:
Delete"Well it shows a certain lack of respect to not even bother trying to speak the main language in Quebec."
And you want to legislate respect? That's what totalitarian countries, such as Cuba and Venezuela do: they legislate respect.
But ask yourself: why exactly do you think that not bothering to learn the language of a majority of a certain territory that you may live within is an expression of disrespect? I tried to demonstrate in my post that if the language of a majority were the standard of what language one much speak as the common language or is the second language one must learn, why in hell don't we learn and speak any one of the aboriginal languages, which were the original "majority" languages wherever the first French settlers landed.
Tell me, complicated, are you open to learning Mohawk? Or Cree? If so, why not? If no, why are you demonstrating disrespect for these languages? I simply don't get this respect thing...that because a certain language is spoken by the majority that NOT learning or speaking it is some sort of expression of disrespect.
Indeed, I think of the countless hours we wasted in the PSBGM system from grade 2 through the end of grade 11 learning French for at least one hour a day; NO ONE LEARNED A GODDAMN WORD OF FRENCH FROM THAT. I truly believe that French should be dropped entirely from the curriculum of both grade and high school. If someone wants to learn it, by all means do so but do it on your own time.
@tony
Delete"NO ONE LEARNED A GODDAMN WORD OF FRENCH FROM THAT. I truly believe that French should be dropped entirely..."
no. a better solution would be to increase the number of hours. if you got 2 hours per day of french wouldn't you be getting somewhere by now mate?
Heaven knows, Tony, I have my anti-Quebec sentiments as well, and as above, I have my share of opinions, but eliminating French from school is not the solution either. Just about every country teaches a second language, and in the U.S., the most officially unilingual country of all, the universities make knowledge of a second language a requirement.
DeleteI agree with you that French 45 minutes per day in high school did not prepare me properly, but provided a base. Since I sense we're contemporaries, we came at the end of the curriculum where French was not taught until Grade 3, and unless you were Catholic (ugh!), you couldn't even be taught French as your language of instruction. Today, it's different. You, our contemporaries, those older than us, and I are of that lingering ilk a.k.a. les anglophones de souche, i.e., English pre-existing the language legislation, we've been given a chance to live out our lives in English, although that is quickly lessening as Boomers and pre-WWII people are dying off. The Old English vacuum is shrinking.
Mr. Sauga, You speak Yiddish but didn't bother to learn French, What the heck mr, sauga! You should run to be mayor of Hampstead. Eh mate
DeleteMr. Sauga, I dare say that wherever I've been in the U.S. that -- at least in high school if not in most grade schools -- a second language is taught as part of the curriculum.
DeleteBut my main problem with not wanting a second language (e.g., French) taught in primary and secondary schools in Quebec is not so much that the kids shouldn't learn a second language but because schools simply have proven themselves -- time and time and time again -- NOT to be the places to learn a second language. It's a waste of time.
The best place to learn a second language is to have one of the parents speak it to the child from age zero (or age one in Korea!) to age five; and then for the child to continue to speak that language at least part-time for the rest of his growing years.
The second best i pre-K immersion, such as that done by Trump's grandkid (and Ivanka's daughter) who is now famous in China for speaking Mandarin (and who, single-handedly, has made Trump quite a popular fellow in China).
I'm all for the above two methods.
PM Turdeau: You're obviously a troll, so all I'll point out here is you're one of the ignoramuses I wrote about above (although I imagine you're intentionally being cheeky) by stating I speak Yiddish. I do NOT speak Yiddish, and clearly stated it proved to be a language barrier when it was used in front of me. That's all.
DeleteTony, I think that one of bill 101's objectives might have been to raise the level of self-respect in the francophone population by appealing to human ego (hence the statements about "primacy" in the bill). Maybe the inferiority complex was so strong in the francophone population that Qc elites felt the need to inject some sort of a superiority complex into the population and hope that everything will level off at some middle ground with people becoming confident without being arrogant. I'm not sure that this was achieved - with the feelings of superiority often expressed on the outside in Qc, I cannot help but sense feelings of inferiority on the inside.
DeleteWhat cannot be legislated though is respect from others and those francophones who expected overt signs of respect and deference from others after the passage of bill 101 must have had a rude awakening.
Tony
ReplyDeleteYour argument makes no sense. 80 percent of Quebecers speak french so of course it makes sense to learn that language for so many obvious reasons. Learning Mohawk makes no sense because hardly anyone speaks it now..who cares about the fact that it was the majority language 400 years ago.
In the rest of Canada do you not think its important people speak english? Exactly the same reasoning here. If you don't speak the main language in an area then you are just making your life very difficult and lets face it..many anglophones back in the 1970s and further back made zero effort to learn french even though the clear majority of Quebecers spoke it. I know so many from that generation that cant even put a sentence together in french but they grew up in Quebec..how is that possible without a deliberate effort.
In this day and age to have a mayor of a town in Quebec unable to speak french is shocking. But Hampstead can get away with it because they are a rich little group of elitists that effectively can cut themseleves off from the rest of the province and not care but it reinforces the old stereotype of the anglo who makes zero effort to learn the main language in this province.
I agree that one hour per day is not going to get you far..thats why most english schools now have at least 50 percent of the day taught in french otherwise as you say you wont speak french. My kids and their friends all speak french quite well so the language barrier will be way less of an issue than the older generations.
complicated writes:
Delete"many anglophones back in the 1970s and further back made zero effort to learn french even though the clear majority of Quebecers spoke it."
Precisely.
And that didn't stop them from making a living, did it? Or shopping as they wanted to shop: they were served in English wherever they went. Or living in any manner they so desired. So why, pray tell, the need to speak or learn French?
Certainly not because the majority of the province was 80% French mother tongue because we all were able to get along quite nicely in unilingual English despite that majority figure (I could well ask you how the French of Quebec -- who, within the context of Canada, are a minority -- got along without many of them learning the majority language of the country which is English but I digress).
The reason of course is Bill 101.
Today if there is any necessity to learn French it is because of Bill 101, not because of any "market" force at play. And, in addition to Bill 101 there is a misplaced notion -- I call it nonsense -- that "we have to respect the majority" which, if you think about it, is quite a frightening proposition.
complicated, you seem more worried about being labelled a redneck or intolerant if you take a stance in which French isn't a necessity, such as I take. But I would suggest something else to you: you are NOT truly, honestly concerned with preserving and promoting French in Quebec. Because, if you were, you would take the exact position that I take, which is to do everything possible to support the ability of unilingual anglophones -- without having to bother to learn French or speak it -- to live in Quebec.
Why?
Because, ultimately, it is the strength of economics that will sustain a culture and language, not some stupid language laws that, artificially, creates the need to speak a language. And what makes a society affluent is not some government program -- such as $8 billion a year in equalization payments or affirmative action or language laws (all of which do the opposite, by the way) -- but strong INDIVIDUALS who are strong by virtue of their economic strength. And that economic strength is furthered by strong investment, strong entrepreneurship on your territory, jobs, and innovation in the economic sphere. NONE OF THESE THINGS CAN BE REPLICATED BY GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.
And the way to best accomplish the above is to attract unilingual English speakers who have money to invest, know-how, professionalism, and entrepreneurship to come to Quebec to invest and provide their know-how to the Quebec economy and society. AND THEY AIN'T GONNA COME IN THE NUMBERS WE NEED IF THEY HAVE TO LEARN FRENCH.
And where, pray tell, are we to find such individuals? Why, in the sea of affluent, educated unlingual anglos who number approximately 350 million which surrounds the province. And I got news for ya: ya ain't gonna get such a demographic from Haiti, Africa, or, for that matter, France.
So that, my friend, is THE formula for preserving and promoting the French language and culture in Quebec: it is through promoting and encouraging unilingual English.
Ironic isn't it?
But in your heart you know I'm right.
I dare say that if we took a sampling from that "rich little group of elitists" from Hampstead that you so disdainly refer to and whom you claim have "cut themselves off from the rest of the province" you would find exactly what I mean: that, disproportionately, Hampsteadians create jobs, innovation, businesses, etc. that do nothing but better the province. Well, again, in your heart you know that I'm right.
Sauga..
ReplyDeleteI see errors made on both sides but you tend to blame everything on the french side..whereas the arrogance of the english minority to me caused the backlash and subsequent downfall. There were too many anglos or allows growing up in Quebec in the time who frankly didn't give a damn about learning the language of the majority nor ensuring that francophones could always get served in french. If a bit more respect had been shown in those days dont think we would have had the PQ and Levesque come in and so on.
On the other hand the pendulum has swung too far the other way..now it seems anglo and allo rights have been overly restricted..Bill 101 went too far..we should have the right to put signs at least the same size as french..I agree that all signs should be bilingual though.
Yes you are right that the church wasn't very oppressive and was part of the problem.And I do agree that the amount of angst over Notre Dame is ridiculous..as you say..its a building and no one died..calm down.
This mayor of Hampstead rightly shows again to les Quebecois that there are anglos/allos in this province who still make zero effort to learn the language and isolated themselves which reinforces a mostly wrong stereotype. I dont think its helpful at all for us all to move forward. There are still too many examples of francophones always having to switch to english when they are dealing with an anglo..that really shouldnt happen.
complicated writes:
ReplyDelete"There are still too many examples of francophones always having to switch to english when they are dealing with an anglo..that really shouldnt happen."
And this attitude of complicated's -- in which francophones should continue to be deluded that they can get through this life quite nicely without catering to and learning the English language -- is, my friends, precisely why the French language and culture will eventually die out in Quebec and Canada.
...and complicated also writes:
"This mayor of Hampstead rightly shows again to les Quebecois that there are anglos/allos in this province who still make zero effort to learn the language and isolated themselves which reinforces a mostly wrong stereotype."
I on the other hand want to both encourage and increase the numbers of this stereotype. WE NEED MORE -- NOT LESS -- UNILINGUAL ANGLOPHONES IN THE PROVINCE. And if you truly want to help the French language in Quebec flourish, you'll agree with me.
See the above arguments I make in my previous post.
Ah, the deliciousness of the argument continues in what appears to be perpetuity! I think it was Reed Scowen who, to me anyway, best captured the the raison d'être of language legislation, that started with Bill 63...Bill 101 came two iterations later (putting so-called federalist Bourassa's Bill 22 between the other two). Interestingly, everybody has forgotten the forbear of Bill 101, namely Bill 1. Naturally the separatists couldn't wait to put their language manifesto first and foremost, but even the French Quebec elite stated Bill 1 was far too much to digest hence demanded extraction of some of its fangs.
ReplyDeleteEven then, the most zealous of the separatists put Bill 101 through in haste because they wanted to ensure the educational aspects could be enforced before the 1977-78 academic year. The separatists formed the majority, and come hell or high water they were going to, and did invoke closure hence Bill 101 was law.
As I've written before, and others above have touched upon, one cannot legislate emotion (or in this case, respect). I and hundreds of thousands of others of the minorities left Quebec, much to the pleasure of the separatists. From that aspect, Bill 101 did what it set out to achieve. I was born right around the Quiet Revolution so I got a small taste of the tail end of the so-called tyranny of the minority and an overdose of the tyranny of the majority. The summer Bill 22 came out was during my first summer job, so that was my first foray of "Me and the City", and I already encountered Franco hostility. I didn't fully realize the upcoming legislation until it finally made the news and then passed into law. I was still in high school so I was just coming into my own politically. I was furious about this new law, and my decision came right there and then to complete my cheap Quebec education and give Quebec a zero ROI for their expenditures on education...at least MY education there.
I think what complicated, Tony and I among others have stated opinions with merit, but the simple fact is Quebec heavily relies on those $10+ billion in equalization payments (not $8 billion anymore, Tony), and now Alberta is fighting mad, and I hope Jason Kenney succeeds with all his efforts to fight that. I'm fully on HIS side with what he has stated thus far.
@sauga
Delete"...and I hope Jason Kenney succeeds with all his efforts to fight that. I'm fully on HIS side..."
if he succeeds in removing equalization from the constitution it's the end of canada. watch it or you may get what you wish for mate.
Mr. Sauga, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Bill 1 a forerunner of Bill 101 that was never signed into law? That is, it may have passed first reading or even third reading but was never an actual law of Quebec.
DeleteIndeed, my understanding is that Bill 1 got past at least first reading and then the PQ -- being kinda new to being a governing party -- screwed things up in terms of parliamentary procedure and had to reintroduce the bill -- by this time watered down from a more radical version -- as Bill 101. And, again, for procedural reasons, they couldn't use the number "1" anymore for the bill so they opted instead for "101." And then Bill 101 went through all the proper "readings" and it was that that became law.
So, it really doesn't matter how radical Bill 1 was because it got watered down anyway (ha! to think that Bill 101 is "watered down"! when it is horrible as it is!) and never did become law.
Oh, student, or Turdeau, or Troll, or whatever your nom de plume of the day is, please entertain us with your political fiction as to why elimination of equalization implies the "end of Canada". I'm sure it will be complete drivel and gibberish, but I can't resist asking. I'm not even asking for the Maritimes to be cut off, although the fact P.E.I. has 24 MLAs for a population about ¼ million people (absolutely ridiculous) and Nova Scotia and Quebec can offer programs the non-equalization provinces can't, I'll look out for your trollesque stupidity as you see it.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, come to think of it, it's likely unnecessary to remove equalization from the constitution. It can be kept, and Quebec can get equalization of $1 per year, unless someone can enlighten us on the exact equalization formula. I neither have the time nor inclination to research it myself.
@sauga
Delete"...unless someone can enlighten us on the exact equalization formula. I neither have the time nor inclination to research it myself."
thanks for admitting yourself that you don't know what you're ranting about mate. you make it real easy for me mate.
I lied, troll! I did, and based on what I read, Quebec should get néant as there is probably more natural gas in the grounds of Northern Quebec than in all of Texas, not to mention shale oil and other grand resources. (Place wink here). You're just too gullible, and your majority are too goddamn lazy to work for and get them! You lost Hyundai (Bromont) and Electrohome (l'Assomption) plants due to your restrictive language and labour laws. That's all!
DeleteI think you're correct, Mr. Sauga, in that it is NOT necessary to remove equalization from the constitution. As you imply, the total amount of equalization can be greatly reduced...but as long as there is SOME equalization then the constitutional mandate is being met.
DeleteBut even the constitutional "requirement" to have equalization doesn't seem to my layman's ears to be that strong. Here is subsection 36(2) on Equalization from the Constitution Act, 1982:
"36(2). Parliament and the government of Canada are committed to the principle of making equalization payments to ensure that provincial governments have sufficient revenues to provide reasonably comparable levels of public services at reasonably comparable levels of taxation."
Committed to a principle. Hmm. Not that strong in terms of legalese, is it?
Most laws contain ambiguities hence my belief Quebec can be spanked when it comes to equalization. I still support Jason Kenney to stir up trouble if Quebec doesn't fall into line, and if Quebec wants to split, good luck to them considering the machinations going on with Brexit, yet Britain will not have to change its currency to something new; however, the Pound will take a frightful beating in all likelihood! Quebec initially said in their last go-round they'd keep the Canadian dollar. Quite paradoxical when a jurisdiction wants to separate from its motherland yet subject itself to the mercy of the motherland's monetary policy. Too funny! That trick worked for exactly 39 days when the Czech Republic and Slovakia amicably separated about 25-30 years ago, and the latter would keep the former's currency. That worked as above, for 39 days!
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