"We need to talk..." Argghhh!!!!!...
Whether it's a girlfriend about to break up with you or you with her, a wife or husband about to unload on a spouse or a boss who invites you into her office for a little 'talk,' it isn't something that the object of such a discussion is keen to engage in, where in fact, some run from the exercise as if it's a communicable disease.
Honey.....
I think we should start seeing other people.
It' time to move in together...
It's time to finally get married...
It's time we separate...
It's time we talk about money...
It's time you get off your ass and get a job...
It's time to stop drinking or drugging...
It's time to have a baby...
It's time to throw out your Playstation/XBox
It's time to grow up...
It's time you stop seeing that certain friend...
It's time to stand up to your mother...
etc. etc.
Yup, the 'talk' is that frank and uncomfortable conversation that couples have, albeit rarely, because it often leads to a drastic change in a situation.
For the PQ, it's been thirty-five years of promising Quebecers a new order, an elopement of sorts whereby the province flees the safety and comfort of Canada to stake out life in an independent country.
"We gotto leave Canada" has been just about the only conversation ever offered by the PQ on the subject and while the PQ has exhorted Quebecers to leave, they've never once indicated where Quebec will go.
It seems that the PQ never got up the nerve to have that very real 'talk' with Quebecers over the modalities of independence.
Will Quebec get a new currency?
How much will our taxes go up?
Will we maintain our Canadian passport?
Will we have free trade with Canada/United States
What about borders?
What will happen if all the Anglos leave?
Will Canada maintain good relations with us?
Will our geographic borders remain intact?
Will the natives revolt?
Hmmm,.
No PQ government has ever aborded these touchy subjects, perhaps because the answers, not exactly what the electorate wants to hear.
Sometimes these very serious 'talks' happens by design, but often enough by a dose of dutch courage, or by accident, where circumstances, coupled with frustration or desperation pushes a party to go where they never went before..
Such was Pauline's venture into the 'talk,' an act of frustration precipitated by badgering reporters who hounded her mercilessly after Pierre-Karl Péladeau's infamous fist pump.
And so finally, Pauline opened the real conversation about sovereignty, one that should have happened thirty-five years ago.
Pauline's version of independence had Quebec using Canada's dollar, complete with Queen Elizabeth's picture on the money, a bit of a letdown to the purs et durs, I imagine.
In that monetary union Quebec would ask for a voice on the Bank of Canada, which perhaps might be re-named the Bank of Canada and Quebec, like Newfoundland and Labrador.
In Pauline's world there would be no borders between Canada and Quebec and Quebecers might hardly notice the difference at all, which begs the question as what the point of it all is.
No matter.....
Like the marriage talk to a reluctant boyfriend of many years, Pauline's 'talk' went over like the proverbial lead balloon.
Quebecers fled in abject terror at the thought because while they liked to talk about sovereignty in a hypothetical way, setting the date, discussing the details made everything too real and faced with the 'talk,' reality set in.
It's bit of a long journey to make my point, which is that I utterly reject the hardliners' contention that sovereignty support sits at about 40%, because it just isn't so.
While perhaps 30%-40% of Quebecers are willing to entertain sovereignty in an abstract and hypothetical way, faced with reality those numbers would collapse.
What did we really learn from the election?
That any discussion of sovereignty by hardliners should be met not by silence, but a shocking dose of reality.
Partition, money, borders, native rights, debt, etc. etc., are all discussions that should be brought to the forefront now, because allowing the thirty-five year fantasy to live on, is unproductive and harmful.
Quebec has sunk from one of the richest to one of the poorest provinces in Canada, all because of the sovereignty fantasy.
It's time for Canada to stop enabling separatist fantasies by spelling out what Canada's version of sovereignty would be.
I don't think it would include continued equalization payments, a common currency or a common anything for that matter and certainly not any part of friends with benefits.
If the PQ wants to soldier on as a separatist party, Quebecers should understand the truth, that the PQ's end game is a recipe for disaster, complete with René Levesque dollars and decidedly hard borders in a territorially emasculated Quebec.
Sound like something you might like?... That's the real question those flirting with sovereignty must ponder.
40% support...I think not.
Well, the separatists now have FOUR full years to go to their rooms and think about what they've done. Given that they've got a four-decade track record of accomplishing nothing, those 1,460 days should feel like a walk in the park.
ReplyDeleteHmmm...I think I'm gonna go out and order some pasta using the word pasta, and then stop by the Walmart for, I don't know - simply just because. :-)
More than four years, actually, thanks to Bernie's law of fixed date elections. We're getting around four and a half years.
DeleteI would like to look at the separatist question from a different angle. It is from a marketing angle, particularly regarding product life cycle. There are 4 stages in a product life cycle: introduction, growth, maturity and decline. While I do not think I need to describe each of the phases, I think we can say that it is apparent that the sovereignty movement does follow the cycle with the maturity phase happened around the second referendum when the PQ had back-to-back majority governments.
ReplyDeleteWith the defeat of the BQ and PQ - coincidentally both happened when 'referendum' was mentioned in their campaigns - it is safe to say that the indicator is that as a product independence is in the decline phase.
So what does management do for a product in decline phase? While management still needs to milk the product until its end, they also need to cut expenditure. That can be done with cutting price, reducing advertising and promotion, and market the product selectively. In the same time, management needs to come up with a new replacement product (presumably better than the declining one) to keep the captive market.
So how does this relate to the independence movement? I think separatists simply can not get voters to follow them using old arguments anymore. The idea of independence can not be in the form of separation with Canada anymore. That idea had been tried, reached its full potential, but simply not enough and failed. So how can there be independence without separation? I honestly do not know. And I do not know as well if there is any form of future Quebec administration that is mutually acceptable by separatists and by majority of voters.
As well, the idea of independence based of sectarian superiority does not work anymore. I believe it is the digital revolution that plays major role in this aspect. Quebecers, French and others alike, are getting to be more and more part of the global world. And the first gate to the global world is the rest of Canada. Quebecers see that their hinterland is no longer confined within the boundary of their province.
In conclusion, I believe that the separatist movement needs to redefine their cause and reshape their idea to fit with what the citizens aspire. How they are suppose to do that, I do not know. But one thing for certain, the old separatist idea of Rene Levesque is dead and should be buried alongside him.
Troy, I don't think "the old separatist idea of Rene Levesque is dead," at all. In fact, I think it has been achieved. The sovereignty-association, the "new deal with Canada," that Levesque asked for a mandate to negotiate in the 1980 referendum has been negotiated over the past forty years and it is what we have now.
DeleteSo, going forward there won't be any more talk of further negotiations or shared passports or open borders, there will be full independence or what we have now.
Jay: In a world of reasonably intelligent people, everything you wrote makes sense, but most people who voted PQ last week are sick individuals. Emotionally disturbed and ignorant people who should be exiled to somewhere like Anticosti Island where it can be a land of white, Joual-speaking Roman Catholics.
DeleteHaving been married to a South African previously, the closest parallel I could find to the above Shangri-La would be a proposed Orange-Free State, a territory within S.A. only for Afrikaners (white, Afrikaans-speaking Protestants with Dutch backgrounds generations earlier). The sect with this proposal was a small elite called the AWB, its leader named (of all paradoxes) Eugene Terreblanche!
If you opt to read up on this fellow, be sure to read the part about his death because it was poetic justice based on the life he led with his political beliefs. Hopefully Pauline Marois's karma will be met considering the evil she could and would have created had the PQ won a majority.
Excellent piece, Editor. In the event of a 'Yes" vote for separation, somehow I don't think that the ROC would view continuing to be screwed by Quebec as a "benefit". The tell-it-as-it-will-be wake-up call to seppies is long overdue. I truly believe that if they ever got a "Yes" vote, within 6 months it would be hard to find a person who would actually admit to voting that way.
ReplyDeleteEditor,
ReplyDeleteReading about your piece about 'the talk', I can not help thinking about Jacques Noel over on Vigile.net. One day he wrote that the separatist movement should not talk about what was going to happen after the independence nor should they talk about the future form of government of Quebec. All those talks were just distractions according to him, and would derail the main objective of the movement, namely independence.
He then posited that the main objective right then was independence, nothing else was important. Therefore, all separatist movements should move together as one in getting the independence. Any other discussion would be held after Quebec rightfully gained its independence and self-determination. Indeed, discussion about ideology, economy, structure, system were all things that while important would only be discussed after independence.
And what do you know, Jacques Noel is no longer a contributor at Vigile.net and his posts seem to have been purged. Well, I am not going to delete my comment, I will leave it there as an example of a separatist's mind set.
DeleteNot discussing just how things will work after separation is akin to jumping off a cliff without considering how you're going to land. That's probably the reason PQ support plunged after Piece of Krap Peladeau signed on and made it seem more imminent. While the idea might be emotionally attractive to a lot of Quebecers, intuitively they must know that a lot of details need to be fleshed out before you can go ahead with it.
DeleteExcellent piece Editor. The Separatist movement has been wasting our time and energy for the past 40 years and should be held accountable. Politics has turned our economy from the nation's engine into a shadow of its former self. Montreal has paid a high price for the romantic ideals of the aging Separatist baby boomer generation. Let's hope this final blow to their movement was a death blow that will be unrecoverable. Ideas may never die but it takes money, volunteers, and organization to keep a political movement afloat.
ReplyDeleteL.D.: How do you propose said movement should be held accountable? Germany, for having initiated and led two world wars was subjected to the Treaty of Versailles after WWI that was impossible to pay, and then paid reparations after WWII that nowhere nearly compensated for the losses they caused, but were not so prohibitive and unplayable as was the Treaty of Versailles.
DeleteBelieve me, L.D., I'd love to see the perpetrators of all this pay dearly for the damage they caused, but in the true Canadian spirit, they won't have to. We all have to date and will continue to do so. Unfair!
Montreal has paid a high price. It would be good if a lot of the revisionist history about Montreal and Quebec was overturned and the real history was able to emerge. That could be a good first step. The fact that Montreal was a multi-cultural city for so long - I'm pleased that the Montreal flag still has the shamrock, thistle, rose and fleur de lys - and it would be good if the way those histories worked together was better known and Montreal could again be a multi-cultural city (it's never going to be as good as Toronto, but it could still maybe catch Calgary ;)).
DeleteMontreal is never again going to be the heart of Canada, it's never going to be the financial center or the cultural center it once was, but it can become something special again. Canada had its 100th birthday party in Montreal at Expo, maybe there should be something at the 150th birthday in Montreal, too...
Jay: Canada's sesquicentennial is coming right up on July 1, 2017 so that wouldn't be ample time to put together another world's fair à la Expo 67. With all the construction nonsense going on since the Olympics, I wouldn't put it past the Quebec construction industry to ensure it would go manifold over budget.
DeleteI'm surprised some other city didn't bid for world's fair, that is, if 2017 will be a world's fair year to begin with. The last one I kept track of was Expo 86 in Vancouver.
Couldn't agree more Editor - I have said that forever: Canada should make it perfectly clear to the separatist supporters exactly where all these "dreams" are headed. There will be complete and utter chaos should it not be made clear and the politicians that "play the game" are indeed responsible for leading these people down the garden path with their make believe "country" and that they are the ones calling all the shots on departure from Canada. This is a total myth - they will be at the mercy of the ROC and it should be made clear who has the upper hand in negotiations. To listen to some of them, they even actually believe that they will keep some of the Canadian Armed Forces equipment and weapons to be used against the ROC should there be problems. The height of their stupidity is beyond belief. Lay it out for them - 40 years of them thinking they hold all the cards in game is way longer than it should have been.
ReplyDeleteEditor, another great post among many over the last 6 weeks. I have not had time to comment but I have enjoyed all your posts and the comments they have provoked from your stalwarts. Thanks for all your good work.
ReplyDeleteRe the "talk" even the hardest of hardline PQ supporters have finally figured out how deep a hole they are in. But everything I have read so far on the "Que faire" question from the hardline folks just regurgitates old ideas. One of my personal favourites is tough guy Pierre Cloutier at Vigile. Pierre says its the end of electoralisme and "chouverainistes ronronnant et mollassons" and recommends going all out for full bore independence, fists in the air, damn the torpedoes etc. Good grief! that passes for a serious discussion of strategy at Vigile. The 'forlorn hope' of the ethnic nationalists. I wish Pierre and his septuagenarian fellow warriors well but I prefer my view from the battlements.
The "movement"...the "projet de pays" isn't dead but it is now clearly down for the count. Troy's analogy to the life of a product and marketing strategy is very apt. Smart, profitable, companies survive because they modify and renew their basic product line at the same time as they develop new products. Everything is always in motion because the customers are in motion. But the PQ only makes corn brooms. If you don't want a corn broom, they can't help you.
An anecdote to Sandy's comment:
DeleteJust laying on the outskirts of the twin cities of Kitchener-Waterloo is a Mennonite village and tourist trap, St. Jacobs. Along its main street is a shop, Hamel's. They carry some farm accessories, fastenings, antiques and other items of interest, but the biggest part of their business is manually manufacturing corn brooms; in fact, they are the exclusive manufacturer of corn brooms for the Home Hardware franchise chain. Watching the assemblers is a tourist curiosity of how things were made one-by-one in eras gone by. The equipment is old, but perfect for the limited production and frequenters to the shop of course can purchase a broom if they wish. The straw used to make the bristles smells pleasant and is a reminder of the less complicated and sophisticated days of manufacturing unlike today, where automation generally rules the way.
It is interesting how much more sophisticated a political party, and most organizations of today have to be in order to seriously compete with the big boys.
Where's Ed? He should have been here gloating about how Couillard pulled it off just as he told us he would.
ReplyDeleteWas wondering that also. Hope he is OK - we fight a lot but I would not wish anything but the best for him.
DeleteIn the Quebec Huffington Post:
PQ lost a half million for calling that election - lol.
I was thinking the same..have not heard a word from ED since before the election. I hope he is well but have my doubts..I know I am not in his list of friends but I do respect his fight and optimism..
ReplyDeleteYou write that "Quebec has sunk from one of the richest to one of the poorest provinces in Canada, all because of the sovereignty fantasy." Do you have any data to back this up? I was under the impression that the gap between the GDP of Quebec and Ontario was dramatically lowered between the 1960s and 1970s, and the economies of the two provinces have more or less grown at the same rate ever since. Given that QC and ON have comparable economies, this would suggest that the negative effect of separatism on the Québecois economy has been negligible. Do you have figures that suggest otherwise?
ReplyDeleteI'm not writing this to score debating points (I'm an English-Canadian federalist), but I'd just like to see if someone could provide an honest assessment of the economic effects of separatism.
I'm really surprised by this comment. That Quebec has slipped from economic powerhouse to the poor house is manifest not by only by every indicator, but the $9 billion in equalization payments which is perhaps the best barometer of where Quebec stands.
DeleteIf I had to choose one small study confirming Quebec as having economically declined, it is this from the Montreal Economic Institute
QUEBEC’S DISAPPOINTING ECONOMIC PERFORMANCE IN THE LAST 25YEARS
In the 1970's, when I was born, Montreal and Quebec was the powerhouse of the Country. We built cars, ships, trains, TV's, tires, clothing appliances and everything else under the sun. We were the airline hub of the country with plans to build SIX terminals up at Mirabel instead of the one abandoned one up there now. We were the financial hub of the country boasting head offices for The Bank of Montreal, Royal Bank and Sunlife insurance. All that has evaporated in one generation and the case that Nationalism was a major contributor to the relocation of these industries can be made convincingly. Keep in mind, manufacturing only really started to move offshore in the late 80's and 90's. My hope is that with the new political reality in Quebec setting in that Montreal can reclaim its rightful place as a Center of excellence in Canada. We have the brains and the talent and we're well positioned to take advantage of the new Euro Free Trade agreement because we are a European beachhead in the heart of North America. We need to free our selves of the Quebec City imposed handcuffs that stunt our ability to compete with other North American cities. Forcing companies to abide by language laws and operate in a language that no other city speaks is a good example. Explain to me how a company is supposed to run a national operation in Montreal without violating Bill 101? Unless it's Federally chartered, it cannot. To me that makes no sense at all.
DeleteThere's an article in the National Post today called, "Quebec's Road Back to Prosperity," that says, "In a 1940 Royal Commission report on federal-provincial relations, the authors noted how prior to the Great Depression, Quebec’s financial position was “long considered to be the fiscal Gibraltar of Canadian provinces.” The Great Depression ended by the time that report was issued, and post-war, Quebec and the rest of Canada blossomed again until about the 1970s. Then, the separatist and interventionist predilection had a predictable depressing effect upon Quebec’s fortunes."
DeleteThe article also points out the difference in population over the last few decades. "In 1980, the year of Quebec’s first referendum on separation, Quebec accounted for 27% of Canada’s population; that dropped to 25% by 1995 (at the time of the second referendum) and 23% by 2013... Ontario and the four Western provinces constituted 64% of the country’s population in 1980, they now account for 70% of Canada’s population."
So that's had an effect, too.
(http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/04/15/mark-milke-quebecs-road-back-to-prosperity/)
Counter of Numbers,
DeleteWhat about the empirical evidence that Montreal was the biggest and more important city in Canada and that position is now taken over by Toronto? In that regards, how about the start of the decline of Montreal coincided with the raise of the separatist movement and the Parti Quebecois? If it is not yet clear as an evidence, what about the fact that the moment Toronto actually surpassed Montreal as the biggest city in Canada happened almost at the same moment Bill 101 was implemented?
LD, the only way that is going to happen is when Quebec repeals Bill 101 and gives us back our equal rights which we had since 1763. Until this happen Quebec will continue to go down hill.
DeleteAllow Quebec to be fully bilingual by law again and we might come back, business night come back...Keep Bill 101 or any other racist, bigoted anti - English language laws, and the world will know that they are not welcome. The word is getting out far and wide - Boycott Quebec period.
The source of my information here was a book by economic historian Marc Egnal titled, Divergent Paths:
Deletehttps://tinyurl.com/lg646x7
Egnal pointed out that in 1750 incomes in New France and the Thirteen Colonies were roughly the same--but over the next two centuries, the US North diverged from those of its neighbours in the South and in Quebec. While the South was weighed down by slavery, economic growth in Quebec was slowed by the seigneurial regime (which made it much harder to develop property), a lingering ancien régime disdain for commerce, and the power of the church. The result was that incomes were much lower in Quebec than in other parts of North America well into the twentieth century.
But beginning in the 1960s, according to Egnal, these incomes began to converge--because of the Quiet Revolution, among other things, the gap in income between Quebec and Ontario became much narrower by the late 1970s than it had ever been.
This article by Pierre Fortin makes a similar case, focusing on a more recent period:
http://tinyurl.com/k3osv3f
The article you cite notes that Quebec's rate of growth has fallen behind that of the rest of Canada, but that's a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison. The West has grown very quickly, but Quebec has more or less grown at the same rate as Ontario. So it's not as bad as you suggest.
@james wolfe
Delete"...when Quebec repeals Bill 101 and gives us back our equal rights..."
what right are you missing james wolfe? apart from advertizing in english only in a province where 80% of the population is francophone?
When someone asks the same question over and over again after being given an answer over and over again, we no longer call them student, we called them drop out.
DeleteAs to the OP it's hard to separate the effects of the quiet revolution and the rise of separatism or definitely contribute them to economic factors. The convergence you refer to never really happened it got closer to Ontario's following the quiet revolution and it got very close in the late 70's and early 80's but Fortin attributes this to a wage increase explosion that ultimately was untenable and negative on the economy. Looking at all of the graphs, granted they end mind 90's, but they are on a downward trend, not towards convergence with Ontario.
"Quebec’s invest-ment
performance in education, infrastructures and equipment, and research and
development is not very different from Ontario’s."
Have to disagree, just look at our roads and overpasses, could be less of Quebec's money actually makes it into those investments and not crooks pockets.
"Much will depend on
success in reducing illiteracy and dropout rates further and improving the
general quality of education."
Well drop out rates are still terrible here, so if that's what he was basing his rosy convergence projections on...
"The province would benefit from various policies that would
support saving and investment, such as raising RRSP limits, incurring fiscal
surpluses, shifting public expenditures towards infrastructure development,
and making the tax and general economic environment more competitive."
I think there is room for argument as to whether Quebec's declining economic performance over the past 40 years is purely a result of the sovereignty movement. Some of the blame should be reserved for the interventionist state that has tried to please everyone with borrowed money, a bloated civil service, etc. But much of that is wrapped up in the European style social democratic bias that the PQ have been able to foster in the whole population. And the PLQ chose to go along with the continual buying of votes with borrowed money. There is one problem, however, that all Quebec parties have to wear - separatist or federalist - and that is the failure of the education system to produce the business class, the entrepreneurs, the wealth creators, that would give Quebec a fighting chance to maintain the quality of life that was available in the past - albeit on borrowed $.
ReplyDeleteThere is a lot that can be done to stimulate the economy that has nothing to do with the "national question" but if we don't fix the education system and start getting more people through high school etc. none of that will matter and Quebec's slow slide into mediocrity will continue. Couillard has free rein for 4 + years but it goes by very quickly so I hope the new team hits the ground running. So much to do !
Speaking of Quebec education... Is it true that someone who studied in Quebec from kindergarten through university would never have to take a course in economics? How is it that with all the recent talk of adding 3 more provincial history courses, no one has talked about requiring citizens to know how the economy works?
Delete"....How is it that with all the recent talk of adding 3 more provincial history courses...."
DeleteI am beginning to think those 3 courses should be taught, but as a cautionary-tale of what poor judgement has led this province to. They put that spin on it...they have my blessing!
I went to english high school in Montreal and can comfirm, economics is a required course in grade 11.
Deletehttp://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/jocelyn-dupuis-ex-ftq-construction-boss-pleads-not-guilty-to-fraud-1.2611201
ReplyDelete""Rolland Brillon testified that in one particular week Dupuis billed the union for $4,600 in restaurant meals, $1,800 in hotels and $510 for 1,400 kilometres worth of mileage without ever leaving the Montreal area.""
This is the only kind of ambition that exists within "Les Quebecois".
Everybody wants to join a union. They all dream about having enough seniority to the corrupt guy on top.
Entrepreneurialism? WTF do we need that for?
When business people are involved and not politicians and union leaders, decisions might get made based on effort, ability etc.
This is extremely damaging to the Quebec economy. Imagine if Quebecers had to compete on merit or skill. Thankfully they have the unions to protect them from working.
Union teachers growing up little Quebecois.
They can all list off a bunch of meaningless grievances and mumble about social contracts. Otherwise they are useless.
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/don-t-blame-pq-loss-on-values-charter-drainville-1.1774710/comments-7.505404
ReplyDeleteIt is our saving grace these people are such imbeciles, arrogant to a fault!
The comments at the bottom are very amusing.
Re above link, comment by one of the contributor:
Delete"First job for the new government should be the dismantling of the language police. That alone would put 20 million a year back into the government coffers."
It makes sense to me!
Weird I thought Drainville said a vote for the Liberals is a vote against the charter, and that he refused to compromise on the charter's contentious parts? I guess being put in one's place, changes one's tune.
Deletehttp://www.montrealgazette.com/news/imaginary+nation+sovereignists+hurting+Quebec+Legault+says/9714706/story.html
ReplyDelete"It is possible to be nationalist, and protect the French language and culture and Quebec interests, without pushing for sovereignty, he said. The péquistes will have to come to the same conclusions he did in 2009 — when he defected from the sovereignist camp."
Excuse me? He makes it sound like he had this great epiphany back in 2009, THEY'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 40 YRS ALREADY. Rien de nouveau ici, désolée.
The other thing is that for die-hard seppies, this just hasn't been enough, they want MORE, MORE, MORE. It's the seppie MO. Drainville arrogantly wanted MORE by being uncompromising on bill 60, the no values charter. He was unwilling to compromise, and found himself flat on his ass ..as the opposition party on April 8th!
Never bite off more than you can chew! Don't try to either. Lol
"The other thing is that for die-hard seppies, this just hasn't been enough, they want MORE, MORE, MORE."
Deleteyes they want a country. you make it sound like you had this great epiphany. but it's no scoop mate. a nation's longing for political control over its affairs. nothing new here, sorry.
Get a job pinstripes, and pay down your 250+billion dollar debt before talking 'nation' ...you sound ridiculous and it's quite embarrassing.
DeleteWhen someone asks for more power but refuses to say why or what they'll do with it, it would be wise to say no, especially when they fail to handle the responsibilities they already have.
DeleteI don't even live in Quebec and I am paying for students education and daycare due to students poor choices. A simple thank-you would suffice.
Delete@Student
Delete"a nation's longing for political control over its affairs..."
The problem seems to be that you're either going to have to broaden the definition of "nation," to include more than just French-Canadians or reduce the definition of Quebec to only the parts that are majority French-Canadian - Quebec minus Montreal, essentially.
The problem with broadening the definition of "nation" is that it will eventually lead to "Canada." Right now the majority of people living in Quebec feel they have their country and it's Canada. There has never been any reason given for why it would be better for Anglophones or Allophones to give up being Canadian and to become part of the Quebec nation (if they were even allowed to become part of it). Canada clearly wants these people as full citizens (and there's no "unknown" about this citizenship, we know what our currency is, we have our passports, our borders, our banks, our rules about foreign investment, our foreign policy, it's all well-known) and it often looks like Quebec isn't as enthusiastic to have them (us) as full citizens so it seems clear why they chose Canada. Sometimes it feels like separatists "blame the customer" when people chose Canada. You have to convince us yours is the better option. Or, I suppose, get enough of a majority so you can take that option away but that doesn't seem to be working.
But if Montreal and a few other parts of Quebec were left as Canada, then the rest of Quebec could easily separate.
Legault could work with Couillard and the Feds / Boy Trudeau, develop the St Lawrence as his special economic zone (he's already on to this), expand south to the Townships and West to Hull, and leave the strip north, between the St Lawrence and the Cree north, an independent Quebec. An economy run on blueberries?
DeleteI think with the socio-economic-political situation as today, it is one of the main reason why Quebec independence movement will not succeed. It only serves a very narrow segment of the society. The independence movement only serves the interests of French Quebecers. It does not care about French non-Quebecers and nor does it care about non-French Quebecers.
ReplyDeleteWow.anyone who somehow believes Montreal and Quebec have not declined massively economically is definitely in denial. I mean just walk around Montreal..potholes everywhere..empty buildings with a louer signs all over the place..bridges ready to collapse..a scarcity of new buildings compared to any other major city in Canada. Without the government money here what would be left?
ReplyDelete9 billion per year in transfer payments..250 billion dollars in debt..highest taxes in north america..
In the 1970s practically all the major companies in Canada were based here..all the banks have left..cp has left..and on and on..
We are living off fumes now..just adding more debt until the inevitable crisis..we are heading towards Greek status..
Yes, Montreal is not Toronto. Not even Chicago. But it can be. Stop carping and get to work. Montreal has huge assets and it will, it must, ADVANCE.
ReplyDeleteI hope that the Couillard/Coderre combination can get us back in focus. Skip the "national question". With the PQ in full retreat there is an opportunity to make our city flourish, again. If the PLQ <> Montreal - their re-election should not be in doubt.
Forget the new country stuff dudes. Its so ... 20 th century.
Un député libéral réélu visé par une enquête de l'UPAC
Deletehttp://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/societe/2014/04/16/009-enquetes-policieres-parti-liberal-quebec-upac.shtml
The 21st century is very competitive. Montreal needs to find an identity. Maybe it should look to its great history. Maybe go back to the days when it alternated French and Enflish mayors....
DeleteOnly kidding....
Maybe it should become a city-state.
DeleteI insist on it because, until and unless it can make its own rules in regards to governance, whereby it is not dragged down by language watchdogs and excessive language laws, it remains unwelcoming to Business and Industry. No one is willing to admit that to go forward and FLOURISH, theses two thing have to be scaled back considerably where it's concerned. Until you do that, you can talk till you're blue in the face, Montreal will not flourish, and that's what all you're little friends sitting in the National Assembly have wanted till now. This acknowledgment needs to come to the fore, so that everyone's aware THEY are no longer under the bloody radar.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/a7ois+Legault+prediction+nasty+surprises+come+true/9746282/story.html
ReplyDeleteWell what a shock..the Liberals involved in dirty dealings. For all that continue to be in denial about the Liberals not getting their hands dirty this is pretty damning. But go ahead and spin it as a big lie..the Liberals can do no bad right. This was only the deputy premier of the province..I mean no big deal right. And you all gave this party another 4 1/2 years to do whatever they want..well done..lets reward corrupt politicians because they are federalists.
I bet after the Charbonneau commission is over they will just come up with new and more sneaky ways of accomplishing the same as before. We need a cultural shift in government and we instead have the same old gang in power..
Montreal needs to become a city-state
DeleteTo the really gifted Listeners out there, we should use this time wisely and implement a plan that will get us there cause these next 4 1/2 yrs are just a stay-of-execution. The seppies will be back with their shitty Litany and we should be prepared for it...but in a more substantive way. All provincial government bodies, ruling or not, should be put on notice..Montreal not only seeks retribution for its mistreatment, abuse, exploitation and down-right neglect these past 4 decades, IT REQUIRES complete control over its affairs and destiny going forward. Montreal trusts no government body to accomplish this on its behalf.
DeleteNo provincial government body..that is
DeleteGet a job mve
DeletePlease complicated - they're all crooked - we know that. We put trust into the liberals to clean up their own party and fire anyone that is proven guilty of any of this stuff. I know, I know, Legault's party is not contaminated YET but dammit he was in the PQ party when all this stuff was going on in ALL the parties and did nothing so please spare us the lecture.
DeleteLOL....a little nervous ...eh? LOL Bite me seppie! Lol
DeleteWhat we propose should make you jerks nervous alright. It will catch on in a huge way and when it does, it will keep you up nights..Payback babes, for what you've done to this wonderful city these past 40yrs.
Montreal and some surrounding area should become a province. By population it would be third largest behind Ontario, BC and Alberta. And I think by land mass it would be bigger than PEI.
DeleteTake the 401 mve
Deletes.r...how many times do we have to discuss this? I am not moving, BUT you will be miserable the next 4 yrs since the PQ crashed and burned and now the Liberals reign! It will be really really tough for you &yours AND just imagine if they surprise everyone and really turn the Economy around babes,,,kiss of death for u guys..for sure, no chance for u to even make a come back in 4yrs, lol. This is why...YOU should move! LOL
Delete"Take the 401 mve"
DeleteSpeaking of which..I was in one of our Ontario offices yesterday, chatting with a colleague (an English dude), I was taking him into moving to Montreal. Best thing he could do for his young kids I told him...you put them in French school full time, at least for primary school, and keep speaking English at home. This will ensure their fluency in both Languages! Win Win...lol...His face lit up! LOL
You're Welcome seppies! THAT'S how you promote the French Language!
DeleteWhat a boob:
ReplyDeletehttp://goo.gl/90RWqW
Why don't they just go crawl in a corner somewhere and hide out until this province becomes a country? They are so embarrassing.
@Cutie
DeleteI agree...what a BIG boob. It is a bit comical though, he decides to go into politics, makes a grand entrance and he's pathetically rejected by the electorate. He can't deal with it, and like the spoilt brat sore Loser he is, seeks vindication. If he is smart (yes I know better, just sayin'), he'll stop attracting such embarrassing attention to himself. It is becoming really awkward to witness and it will just end up costing his little empire money. Low and behold when Consumers become "turned-off". Even huge empires have been known to crumble!
To the rich boy stooge peladope.,,,You know what dickhead...you keep doing EXACTLY what you're doing, keep up the infantile tantrums, it is amusing to watch you unravel. And after all, you are providing comic relief and that's a good thing!!! LOL
DeleteIt's kind of amazing he's saying this only two months after Quebecor was given a huge piece of the wireless business in Ontario, Alberta and BC instead of it going to Verizon. And the federal government was so pleased to welcome, "A fourth Canadian competitor," into the market. Does he think he would still be treated as a Canadian company after separation?
Deletehttp://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Marois+bids+tearful+goodbye+Quebec+politics/9744494/story.html
ReplyDelete"Also named to high positions, following the Quebec tradition when governments change, were three top advisers to Marois.
Patrick Lahaie, an unsuccessful PQ candidate in the April 7 election, was named assistant deputy minister of agriculture. Marc-André Beaulieu was named assistant deputy minister of culture and communications, and Stéphane Dolbec becomes assistant deputy minister of labour, joining St-Gelais at the Commission des normes du travail."
Excuse me? WTF
Financement: Marc Bibeau sous la loupe de l'UPAC
ReplyDeleteLes enquêtes de l'Unité permanente anticorruption (UPAC) sur le financement du Parti libéral du Québec (PLQ) laissent croire aux policiers que le magnat du béton Marc Bibeau suivait les dons illégaux des grandes entreprises et qu'il aurait amassé lui-même, en une seule journée, les mystérieux 428 000 $ dont le parti ne retrouve pas la trace.
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/justice-et-affaires-criminelles/affaires-criminelles/201404/17/01-4758619-financement-marc-bibeau-sous-la-loupe-de-lupac.php
"que le magnat du béton..Marc Bibeau"
DeleteMmm ...that's no "Guido" is it? Lol
I couldn't agree more with this letter writer, but since there has always great antipathy between this literary giant, Richler, a treasure-of-a- writer (who during his Lifetime, did his share to keep Montreal On THE MAP), and quebec nationalists, I doubt anyone will do anything to keep his Legacy alive, unless someone privately undertakes this endeavor.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/Letter+City+Montreal+should+honour+Mordecai+Richler+with+more/9748264/story.html
A Montreal library should be named for Mordecai Richler, Shloime Perel writes.
Re: “A tribute to poor planning” (Bill Brownstein, April 16).
It is utterly shameful that the City of Montreal can’t get it together to have a permanent public memorial to Mordecai Richler other than a gazebo, regardless of its condition. What does this say about our city?
Lachine named its public library after Saul Bellow, who was born in Lachine. It would be entirely fitting to have a Montreal city library named after Richler with a special collection on his work and an opening dedication, organized as an event of importance.
It’s unfortunate, as well, that many of Richler’s papers are not in Montreal but are housed in the University of Calgary archives, when our city was the natural place for them.
Before we bring the Expos back to Montreal, let us do something substantial to honour the memory of one of Canada’s and the world’s greatest writers, something that will further his work in perpetuity.
Shloime Perel
Montreal
© Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette
Concordia has the new Mordecai Richler Reading Room:
Deletehttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/mordecai-richler-was-here-concordia-reading-room-replicates-writers-office/article15646959/
But, sure, there should be a library or a street named for him. There's an article in the National Post today about the renovations to the gazebo being named for him not having started yet.
Similarly when I visited Montreal a few years ago, I sought out McGill's Student Union which is named after William Shatner. I was extremely disappointed to see no sign on the outside of the building, and the one inside was merely hung on a curtain which can easily be removed at a moment's notice.
DeleteWhy do I suspect that if he went to France and had a distinguished acting career in French television and films (and moreover Francisized his name to Guillaume Shatner), his name would have been ENGRAVED on the front of the building?
This letter is from a few days ago.....but how ingenious!
ReplyDeleteOn aime ça!
http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/Letter+OQLF+should+have+mandate/9736877/story.html
The Media should be playing this today..as they show her leaving the National Assembly...lol
ReplyDeletewww.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Kvu6Kgp88
I can see fake Tom Hagen rubbing his hands together in uncontainable anticipation...snake ...probably set her up.
Hey its just so much interesting blog full of catch up lines so i will suggest that every reader should read this blog and this media is so easy to communicate with each other.
ReplyDeleteDIN 7 | DIN 6325