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| Israeli Druze casting a vote |
It's my experience that berating dedicated French-language militants over related language issues here in Quebec is about as rewarding and productive as beating a dead horse.
I've always been amazed at the hypocrisy of Quebecers, castigating Israel over defending itself from a hailstorm of missiles, while engaging Natives in hostilities over the most benign confrontation over a golf course. whatever....
So I'm going to try a different tack, using Israel (a villain to most true separatists) as an allegorical substitute and ask the above-mentioned group of French-language militants to offer linguistic advice to a country that surprisingly has many things in common with Quebec.
Now I'll stipulate right off the bat, that the comparison is imperfect, but nonetheless, let's have a whirl.
Let us start with population, Israel has a population of about eight million, just about the same as Quebec.
The majority, about 75% are Hebrew-speaking Jews, while in Quebec the majority 79% are French-speaking Christians.
Both countries have significant minorities, English in Quebec (13%) and Arab(20%) in Israel.
Now this discussion only describes Israel and not Gaza or the West Bank. The Arabs described are full citizens of Israel, enjoying the same legal definition of a citizen as their Jewish countrymen.
In 2009, 53% of Arab Israelis voted in the general election versus 57% of Quebecers who voted that same year in the provincial election, which is pretty similar.
No doubt the tension between Arabs and Jewish Israelis is much higher than relations between Anglos and Francos here, but it's important to remember that a recent Harvard study found that 77% of Arab Israelis would rather live in Israel than in any other country.
I'm not sure that if a similar study was conducted in Quebec about anglos, that the score would be much higher.
In Israel, the Arab minority live largely in voluntarily segregated neighborhoods and communities, a bit like the Anglo bastions in western Montreal, parts of the Pontiac and Townships, where they live their lives in Arabic, practicing their own culture, speaking their own language, distinctly apart from the mainstream society of Israel.
Sound familiar?
So my first question to French language militants reading this blog, (and they are legion) is whether this is reasonable. Shouldn't the Arabs be encouraged to embrace the mainstream culture and identity of the majority in order to create a cohesive society?
Perhaps a noted social commentator like Réjean Labrie could contribute a lesson plan for these Arabs on how best to integrate into Israeli society;
Should Arab Israelis;
- Embrace matzoh, chicken soup, shakshooka and cottage cheese for breakfast?
- Speak Hebrew in public?
- Give up their 'ethnic' garb and adopt western attire like the majority of Israelis?
- Participate in national day celebrations by having their own Arab artists sing in Hebrew.
- Celebrate national holidays like Yom Kipper and Passover.
- Watch Hebrew television and movies.
- Circumcise their male children.
- Vote for mainstream political parties rather than those that represent their own narrow Arab interests?
And so, is it reasonable for Israel to declare a national identity that excludes Arab culture, language and history?Is it reasonable for the Israeli government to declare Israel a one-culture, one-language country where Arab culture and Arabic is tolerated, but not encouraged?
Let us apply Bill 101 to Israel and see what the ramifications would be like.
After all, if French is in danger in North America, Hebrew, the national language of Israel must be equally as well, surrounded by a sea of Arabic. In fact Israel is the only place on Earth where Hebrew is actually spoken, so I can't think of any national language more threatened.
Would it be deemed a tad racist for an Israeli cabinet minister to proclaim that too many Arabs live in Jerusalem and that measures should be taken to increase the number of Jews who live there in order to preserve the Jewish 'character' of the city?
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| Should Arab only billboards in Israel be disallowed as English ones are in Quebec? |
Would it be fair for extremist Hebrew language zealots and government inspectors to go around Arab shops and businesses hounding shopkeepers and businessmen for the slightest violation of language purity laws.
Would it be considered unreasonable that some Arab clerks are unable to serve the Hebrew majority in the language of Abraham?
Should all official communication between citizens and the government be conducted in Hebrew only?
Should Arabs be required by law to speak and understand Hebrew before graduation from Arab language universities?
Should companies that employ mostly Arabs be required to communicate with employees in Hebrew?
Should all professionals be subject to Hebrew language proficiency tests before being allowed to practice, even if they do so in an exclusively Arabic environment.
Should bus drivers refuse to give instructions in Arabic even while driving through exclusively Arab neighborhoods.
In fact should the bus company make it explicit policy that no employee be obligated to speak Arabic to clients, even if they can?
Should ambulance drivers serving Arabic villages refuse to communicate with patients in Arabic, even if they speak the language?
Is it fair to tell Arabs that if they don't like the Hebrew nature of Israel they should pack up and leave to Egypt or Jordan where their language and culture reigns?
Is it reasonable to call these measures necessary and reasonable because of the fragile nature of Hebrew?
Hmmmm.....
I can just imagine French language militants bridling at the comparison, but remember, Israel is a country, not a province in an Arab speaking country.
Let us also remember that Israel is a creation of the United Nations, duly formed and constituted under the auspices of a free vote in the General assembly, more than Canada and Quebec can claim, both which basically stole the land from the natives.
I'm sure that everyone would find the above fictional behavior by Israel reprehensible and racist, to say the least.
By the way, little of what is described above is real, the truth being that Arabic is afforded much more freedom in Israel than English in Quebec.
If the measures above were somehow a reality, I'm sure the United Nations would be condemning Israel six ways from Sunday and Amir Khadir would be leading an anti-Israel demonstration in Montreal, supported ironically, by a wide range of pasta chasers over Israeli ethnic cleansing.
How is it that when we view our behavior in the context of somewhere else, it is a lot easier to recognize it for what it is.........Racism.....
REMINDER!.....REMINDER!
Equality Party 2.0 membership drive.
Tonight!Try and make an effort to attend....
On a slightly unrelated topic, Does anyone know if bill 115 has been legally challenged?
ReplyDeleteJarry: What would be the point in doing so? The dregs of French Quebec society are not happy with how former premier John James Charest arrived at Bill 115. Even if fascist French Quebec didn't challenge with former premier John James Charest did, the simple fact of the matter is this was how the federalist forces Ed Brown seemingly has blind faith in fought the fact the previous fascist Bill 104 was defeated by the Supreme Kangaroo Court of Canada. The nine kangaroos in charge gave former premier John James Charest an out of all this. All former premier John James Charest did was replace Bill 104 with Bill 104.1 or Bill 104 Lite or whatever semantics you want to address it as.
DeleteAll the fascist péquistes, SQers and CAQers would do is come up with something even more stringent. You Anglophones have ZERO representation in the Quebec government UNLESS, AND ONLY UNLESS you support the new Equality Party. As Anglophones, voting for anything else is strictly at your peril, and by not voting Equality, you will get EXACTLY the representation and democracy you deserve.
I suggest to all my fellow English speakers I left behind get to the NDG legion hall early to secure your seats. Leave work early, hire a baby sitter! Don't miss this! Not attending this important meeting further proves the point your indifference will be at YOUR peril, and you will get the Quebec you deserve!
I have to agree - Get out to that meeting tonight EVERYONE that possibly can! It is so important to our democracy here in quebec - we must get some new parties elected to the NA - it is imperative for our ongoing existence in quebec. I hope they are able to come to our area in the near future!
DeleteIsrael and their violent behavior have no lessons to teach to Quebec
ReplyDeleteSerge: Can you kindly give us some examples of this "violent" behaviour as you see it?
DeleteReally? You think that they don't fight their war violently? I read articles like this and all I think of is the violence... SMH
DeleteThanks for your deep, well-thought out rebuttal, Serge. Your incisive analysis has given all of us a lot to think about.
DeleteI guess if New Brunswick and Ontario started firing rockets at Montreal and Quebec cities the French in Quebec would just give verbal warnings eh? Dub asses. I'm sure you would defend yourself, likely more violently than Israel does. what has been said above does not mention the violence caused by the Hamas. The retaliation is always following a mortar or rocket attack. If the Arabs want peace, just stop provoking confrontation. Now, use your brain Mr Sauga and give a valid reason why the above topic of language issues is different than Quebec. answer the question, would Israel be justified making the Arabs speak Hebrew? would they be justified at making the Arabs put their signs in Hebrew and Arabic with the Jewish language twice the size of the Arabic? Answer those questions with honesty and sincerity if you dare sir.
DeleteBrian Amesse : Really? You think that they don't fight their war violently? I read articles like this and all I think of is the violence... SMH
DeleteReally? I read comments like yours and wonder whether you and Serge actually read the whole essay. Perhaps you should go back and re-read the Editors original post, paying particular attention to where he says: "Now this discussion only describes Israel and not Gaza or the West Bank." In other words, not the Palestinian issue. FYI, not everyone who wears a keffiyeh is an arab.
"Now, use your brain Mr Sauga and give a valid reason why the above topic of language issues is different than Quebec. answer the question, would Israel be justified making the Arabs speak Hebrew?"
DeleteDon't think he will!
@Ken Flecknell It's been almost a day and he still hasn't given a valid reason.
DeleteTo the contributor with the same family name as two Quebec premiers: Methinks thou doust protest too much. Answer this question: Does Israel force Arabs to speak Hebrew?
DeleteDon't think you will!
Serge, with respect, you're a pompous idiot. No offence. Wait, yes, offence.
DeleteEditor, hats off on picking a topic I KNOW the Franco ignoramuses and trolls won't be able to resist sinking their teeth into. Their visceral hatred for Jews period stems from the likes of false prophets and wrongly revered Abbé Lionel Groulx, a Franco Catholic animal with a visceral hatred for everything not French and Catholic, especially Jews.
ReplyDeleteI previously read Mortecai Richler's book where he talked about another rabid anti-Semite who used to go on radio weekly with his tirades bellowing about his hatred of the Jews...and against others not of his exact ilk. I looked through the book again but had trouble finding the name of the individual Richler singled out.
Like Irwin Rapoport featured last week in this blog, I'm a kindred spirit of Mr. Rapaport. He couldn't have more eloquently stated his case, but perhaps with a little more fire and brimstone. He is a 4th generation Quebecker whose family came to Quebec in 1905. Next year marks a century that my Maternal grandfather landed in Quebec. Interestingly, I thought of him a lot yesterday (Sunday) as yesterday marked the 80th anniversary of his death. Today would have been his second youngest daughter's 93rd birthday. My aunt passed away in July 2010 marking the last child of that generation that spanned 101 years. The first three children were born in Russia, the last five in the Eastern Townships region.
I am a second generation Canadian through my late mother. My father's family arrived in 1926 with my father having been born in Poland. He and two sisters took the long boat ride over the Atlantic Ocean. The last two were born in Montreal. Like Mr. Rapoport, inexplicably, my parents did not teach us Yiddish. Like Mr. Rapoport, I'm willing to absorb that loss. While I suppose there is a loss in not passing the mother tongue of our ascendants, I don't feel any less Jewish for it. Yiddish is not widely spoken today. It somehow manifested from German, the central country and culture of Ashkenazic Jews from were Yiddish was derived, I imagine as a language of communication amongst European Jews. Sephardic Jews don't speak the language. They were the Jews primarily of Spain and the Mediterranean countries.
You have this huge world-wide diaspora of Jews that faced endless persecution, segregation, extermination and other atrocities, yet Judaism has been around for over 5700 years. FYI, there was an article about "too much English and other European languages" I believe in Tel Aviv, and there were purists wanting signs in Hebrew only, so it's not as if we don't have a smattering of fanatics over there as well, but to me, it's insanity.
Until 1948, Hebrew was only a scriptural language, preserved as the language of prayer throughout the ages, and for 2000 years, NOBODY spoke it. French has been spoken in Quebec and beyond for about a half millennium now, that's 500 years, and despite Lord Durham's attempt to assimilate French speakers into the English milieu back in 1839 i.e., almost 175 years ago, the attempt failed. As miserably as it failed back then, any similar attempt today wouldn't get a sniff of having a chance to succeed, as the modern media would beat it down in minutes, or at worst, a few hours.
I look forward to the comments to come on this, and I hope our honest readers and contributors make every effort NOT to address the inevitable idiotic cracks the usual trolls (and maybe even new ones) post on this blog.
Editor: I requested you to remove a troll's remarks attacking me not because of what he said, but because he didn't have the balls to post his nom de plume. I hope you'll follow your own policy of removing anybody who doesn't identify him/herself.
England should have told the French that Canada is an English speaking country and that South Africa was also an English speaking country. Instead, we have/had apartheid in each country.
DeleteThis can still be remedied if we put sufficient pressure on Mr. Harper to do his job. The United Nations has twice ruled that Canada is the worst offender in trampling the basic rights as stipulated by both the UN and Canadian Rights and Freedoms. The UN states that the government has a responsibility to stop the ethnic cleansing of Anglos out of Quebec by the jack booted Quebec Language Taliban under the direction of Herr Marois. Get on the band wagon, call on PM Harper to set this right, or he will be upset in the next election!
FROM ED
DeleteSauga, Again you disappoint me. You hate Quebec and the Liberals so much you'll do anything to wish us misfortune. How can you hate us so much that you would see us destroyed to get even for imagined sins against you. You are a small mean spirited person who doesn't live here so you have nothing to lose. When we fail, will we hear the maniacal laughter all the way from Ontario. You are hoping the equality party will split the vote so the Liberals will lose killing our hope of freedom. You disgust me. Please keep my name out of your posts, it makes me feel dirty that it came from your brain. Ed
Wayne Hawthorne, It was understood that Canada would be English as the language of the vanquishers always wins. Unfortunately, Queen Victoria was soft hearted and gave the order that the French could keep their language and religion.
South Africa does not enter into it. South Africa was controlled by the Dutch Boers not England. Ed
No Ed, I've grown to dislike the place (not quite hate), but I do hate ALL the government parties equally save the Equality Party. Why shouldn't I?
DeleteMy family came to Quebec 100 years ago next year, and made good, not only for themselves, but for their community by creating jobs. Irwin Rapoport's family did the same, and you worked hard to provide for your family, too.
Sadly, Montreal and Quebec has changed over the last 40 years, and I'm disillusioned that nobody was prepared to take he helm of fighting not only the separatists, but Bourassa when he introduced the first Official Language Act, a.k.a. Bill 22. Howard Galganov came along about 20 years later and he faced not only the wrath of the French media, but the English media as well. Maybe he wasn't the perfect crusader for the cause, but few seemed to back him up, to the point where he finally left and like me, he too wants Quebec out of Canada.
You read yourself in a prior blog how the Editor mentioned former Premier John James Charest took $700 million for federally compensated provincial programs and instead made a phony hero of himself by abusing those funds as a $700 million tax break for Quebec at the expense of the federal taxpayer. I'm not interested, and I don't think the other provinces are for supporting Quebec in this way.
Since Harper will still have his majority government in place next year when it's time to revise the equalization payments formula, and since he only has a measly five MPs from Quebec, he can at least claw back that $700 million; furthermore, I hope he is vindictive enough to let Quebec have it for all the problems they have caused! The Editor thinks he is.
Ed, except for the last year, what did YOU do to fight Quebec government policy over the last 40 years? I heard a lot of my elders TALKING A GOOD FIGHT, but nobody did much but blah blah blah on the radio and in newspaper editorials. They're bad, they're fascists, lah-dee-dah lah-dee-dah, but nothing more than talking the talk. I was just a school kid, and I saw NO leadership, so my choices were to love it or leave it. You know my choice. You were already out in the workforce in your 30s whan this crap started. What did you do to show you walked the talk?
FROM ED
DeleteWhat I was doing Saugy was supporting bill 101. I was 41. Bill 101 was brought in for good reasons. My kids were scared my wife was worried and I worried about my family when I was miles away and unable to protect them. It was worse feeling than WWII because we new the enemy was not on our doorstep but now they were living among us with bombs. Bill 101 brought an end to the FLQ threat and gave us all relief. You had to be there to feel how much easier we breathed knowing the militants felt they had won and the war we lived through was over. The requirements that only English children went to English schools was asked for by the protestant school board because French Children whose parents had lived through the Education of the Catholic church days were flocking to English school in numbers they couldn't handle. Robert Bourrassa was a good man basically serving those who had elected him, the Francophones of Quebec. he did not do anything just to hurt Anglophones. Back then no one took it personally. Now, you would be historians are telling people what happened and you don't even know.. You act as though you lived through it and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. You have no idea knowing what it's like to fear very day for your families safety. After that Saugy i voted Liberal and left things in their capable hands. Ed
ED, so you've spent the last 35 years placating, making concessions, being walked on and the franco-supremacists are still tightening the screws on you, but you think the way to go is to vote Liberal because the whole separatism issue is off the table as long as they're in power. You'll still get treated like crap, but there'll be no referendum. That's great. In hindsight, wouldn't it have been better for you and your family to hitch a ride with Mr. Sauga when he pulled the plug on his Quebec experience?
Delete@diogenes
Deleteed votes against stuff. against separation in quebec, and against harper in canada. maybe he learned that way and he never realised you can also vote for the people you like instead. anglo/liberal endoctrination is a strong bond to break.
separatists are more open minded as they split into four parties now, caq, pq, qs and on. of course this freedom they allow for themselves is a liability when elections come, but they enjoy a much more constructive political life than ed i'm sure.
Tsk tsk tsk Ed Brown! No need to get personal. I've never taken personal pot shots at your name, just your loyalty to a PLQ that doesn't deserve your loyalty. They're just, at best, the "best of the worst". I've agreed with you on many things, but you lost a number of us by declaring your loyalty for the PLQ. Not that I'm not thick skinned enough to take a little name calling, I'm just disappointed it's you taking the potshots. Oh, well, if you must...
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteDiogenes I get sick of people like you saying I should leave or should have left Quebec. This is my home. My beloved uncle went to war and died defending it. Have you ever heard of loyalty? Do you really think I would run away from the PQ.? What a cowardly way you think.? The only time i felt walked on is when people like you say stupid things like the above. Ed
I would argue Ed that holding your nose and voting Liberal no matter what they do is, in fact, a form of running from the PQ. It takes more courage to stand up and say to the Liberals "What you're doing is wrong and I can't support it.", than to perpetually give them another "X" on your ballot because you're afraid the PQ will get in. While I admire your optimism that this will be the time the Liberals won't screw over anglos/allos, experience would suggest that they will. I hope that when I get to be your age I won't automatically think everyone who disagrees with me is stupid.
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteDiogenes, I have never held my nose voting Liberal. Don't you think that I should wait for them to do wrong before I accuse them of doing wrong. Dr. Couillard has not had time to let us know what he will do because he doesn't know himself yet. I do think that anyone who votes for PQ is stupid as the PQ. I have never said anyone who disagrees with me is stupid, it's you and others hanging that tag on me and I don't deserve it. I do get fed up with those who complain loudly about the PQ and then do things that are obviously going to help them get elected. First, splitting the vote; did we learn nothing in September?
That's how the PQ got elected. Now they want to bring in a third party to have the idiots for four more years possibly with a majority. Second whatever the Liberals have done they've done honestly serving the francophones that elected them (It sure as hell wasn't Anglos support that put them close last September) When they are in power they can be worked on. They are at least reachable. For God's sake Liberals get elected PQ is out. Bill 14 dies, how could anyone not see this. Is
Quebecer Of The Tree Stump the only one can see this.
@ed
Delete"Dr. Couillard has not had time to let us know what he will do because he doesn't know himself yet."
you'd trust a guy who runs for premiership without a clue about what's he's going to do?!?
ed every comment you write you reconfirm that liberals do well in taking you for granted.
but i know what you strategy is. if you complain already about couillard's (lack of) ethics or (lack of) vision, it could get couillard to actually do something for you, and consequently put off the few needed french canadian lunatics that still inexplicably vote for the liberals.
so you choose to stay quiet, hope the guy lures enough french canadians, and then hope he betrays them for your own sake. pitiful.
Ed: I can't improve on what Diogenes wrote in the banter above between the two of you, and tis a rare occasion I agree with the trollish student immediately above. Voting "hail Mary" style to me is not the solution.
DeleteOK, you chose to stay rather than run away, but the battle for English rights should have started in 1974. I left because it didn't. People talked the talk, but it took 20 years for someone to start walking the talk, and the guy who finally did so was lamb-basted by his own community rather than being given their support. If somebody in the English speaking community felt they could have done better, why didn't that person at least try to usurp his leadership much the way Lucien Bouchard did to Jacques Parasite?
You'd think I'd support you and the English speaking community at large, but considering the complacency and sheer cowardice displayed over the last 40 years, why should I? You chose to stay and stick your head in the ground. Sorry, that's not my cup of tea, and given the complacency and cowardice, I figured Quebec doesn't deserve my contribution and tax dollars to better its society. The majority have chosen to spit in our eyes, so why should I support their existence in Canada?
I am a «pur laine» Canadian. In my book Canada comes first. In Francophone books, it's «Québec d'abord!» I've quoted from Reed Scowen's book previously how he mentioned his good friend, Marcel Côté, claims to be a staunch federalist and he'd fight you blue in the face if you told him otherwise, but in a book he wrote, Quebec's first voice is the Quebec government.
Scowen also mentioned that in a social gathering, it's taboo for Francophones to state they love Canada or that the status quo is acceptable. Many of them who proclaim they are federalists are so when it's convenient for them. "Canada" is a pretty good brand name internationally, and that's once of their conveniences. For me, that's not enough. Far from it!
All this is my «raison d'être» for not wanting the feds to give Quebec more money than Quebec contributes to the federal coffers. I neither need nor do I have a use for "fair weather" federalists.
Wow, fantastic writing: and a hint that the Unity Bus to Quebec should be stopping to pick up the pasta chasers. Don't piss off the Italians. Somebody is going to get cement shoes over this one yet!
ReplyDeleteLOL!
DeleteEditor, I'm surprised that you're suggesting we split our vote by promoting this new "Equality Party". I guess you want us to be under PQ rule for a very long time? Didn't get enough from 1994 to 2003?
ReplyDeleteIt's very simple, people don't go into politics to help others, or to make the world a better place. People go into politics for the money and influence. They go into politics for their own selfish reasons. Your Equality Party 2.0 will not be any better, just a bunch of ex-lawyers trying to get their part of the public finance cake. I wouldn't be surprised if part of their financing comes directly from the PQ, after all the PQ benefits the most from the vote splitting.
The only way we will get rid of the separatists is by voting for the Liberals, nobody else has a chance of getting anywhere. Is this really that complicated to understand?
The separatists are not stupid, and I'm sure they are proud of having convinced you of how "evil" the Liberals really are. Maybe you all finally fell for the Loco-Locass song?
If you vote for anyone aside from the Liberals, you might as well vote PQ. Once you have done this, you will no longer have any right to complain about the PQ or their destructive policies and legislation. You're basically a PQ / language law supporter.
Tree stump, don;t be upset by alternate strategies. Having alternate points of view and expressing and pursuing these isn;t something to be feared.
DeleteNot every movement can be controlled from the top like the PQ with mindless "comrades" waiting to lap up their every word without question.
Embracing alternates and discussing new approaches one of the things that marks the difference between mindless intolerance taught in Quebec schools and educated modern society.
The PQ are the party of domga without end.
The more angles are being pursued the better. The more groups no matter how marginal you feel they are, that support common sense human rights honoring society we can have there is no downside.
The PQ masses feel attacked no matter. They live in a world of war analogies and constant fear of "attack".
5 groups countering the prevailing logic in this province is better then 1. Doesn;t matter how you slice it. More media, more attention etc.
I see no downside here.
Persoanlly I think anyhitng that puts pressure on Quebec to visit it's nationalist dreams faster and with more vigor is good.
Once the tensions and pitch of the argument gets heated the PQ supporters have a hard time hiding their outright racism and bigotry.
The more time we can get racist PQ society under any media (internet) spotlight the better. Shows their distasteful society damaging policies for what they are.
The PQ can;t hide their true colors when under pressure. That's what we need and want.
We need more crazies like SR and student out harassing and trolling on the internet and in person. This shows their movement for what it is. Imagine if we could get these nut-jobs out in a rally in the street. They wouldn;t be able to help themselves for burning effigies of anglo's, trashing flags etc.
Don;t forget this is the movement that endorsed terrorism (FLQ). 200 bombs. ***TWO HUNDRED*** That's not a simple "mistake" in strategy. It's the real movement showing it's head. Killing people is ok...
The crazies in the movement cannot be controlled by those at the top.
I'm all for encouraging them to show their true colors as fast as possible. At that point the discussion will truely "jump the shark" and PQ Quebec will be outed internationally as nothing more then a traditional ethnic cleaning war simmering beneath the surface.
Don;t let them hide. Shine the spotlight!
FROM ED
DeleteQuebecer of the Tree Stump, I don't understand why people who whine most about the situation here do their best to damn our chances of relief. Like you say it's so simple LIBERALS IN, PQ OUT. What could be simpler. I'm fed up with people howling the Liberals did nothing for the English, they did. By being n power they kept the PQ out. Even if life under the Libs is no better we will not feel threatened and the economy will start to move again. Some make it obvious they hope for Quebec's failure. Some are like children, no patience. Give Dr. Couillard a chance, he has made promises that we need. A new party has no chance of winning, especially an English party in Quebec. People will say that the last time the Equality didn't take votes from the Liberals, they damn well did. Every English vote that put them in office should have gone to the Liberals. The EQ. Party did nothing. The Libs will be fighting CAQ they don't need another distracter. Ed
The Liberals were in power for nearly 10 years.
DeleteWhere was the Equality Party 2.0 back then, when we had the freedom to give some other people a try? Why are all these vote-splitters showing up now all of a sudden??
Is it because of the PQ? By voting for some 1% party, you're not punishing the PQ, you're helping them. Again, might as well just vote PQ directly.
I'd like to remind you that under the Liberals, we wouldn't even be discussing Bill 14. But thanks to all of you who voted for the CAQ instead of the liberals, we're now stuck with Matante Pauline at the helm. Are you happy and proud that you got rid of mean old "John-James"? Pauline is so much better...
And you guys want to do it AGAIN next election??
Now is NOT THE TIME to split our votes to try out "the new guys". The PQ are currently in power, which is critical for our province. If we give them another 10 years like last time, the results will be even worse: our economy will stagnate, infrastructures will go without maintenance or repair, there will be no new major projects or investments, and the main focus will be language issues and a zero deficit.
@ Quebecker of Tree Stump you make a valid point, but I respectfully disagree. If I were to accept your premise than the Mario Dumont and the Francois Legault would have never emerged onto the Quebec political landscape, least yet the Parti Quebecois.
ReplyDeleteIt is clear that over the last 40+ year the liberals have done nothing for the promotion and preservation of our rights and freedoms. They have contributed as much to the PQ tyranny as the PQ. Our best hope to save Quebec is to follow the example in Iceland and clear out all the politicians, then start anew. Failing that the Equality Party 2.0 does offer an alternative, and by the way the core group are NOT lawyers, by taking note of what the reality of Quebec is. The highest debt and highest taxes in the industrialized world, the greatest waste of public monies by supporting extensive duplication of government services, squandering tax dollars of useless government "offices", inciting rampant discrimination and civil unrest, stifling economic growth and development. Those are the issues at hand at those are what the Equality Party 2.0 will address.
Is it too much to aspire to bring about change for the people instead of stuffing the pockets of political idealists who are so disconnected with the population that they don't even know who Quebecers are!
I would invite you to attend the session this evening, you may actually see some real Quebecers !
FROM ED
DeleteI think perhaps the person Mr. Sauga speaks of was C.D. Howe. he was a Cabinet Minister for the Liberal government during W.W.II. As Minister of Arms and Ammunitions he controlled the economy of Canada during he war. Because of him Blackmarket in Canada was almost nonexistant. he kept a tight rein on the wheat board so Canada would always have food. He was often heard on the radio encouraging Canadians that everything would be fine and kept people feeling good while going about their business. He had a lot of power since MacKenzie King left the war in his hands and England's. He sometimes complained about Jews in Canada trying to circumvent the wartime rules using their unorthodox business practices. Ed
FROM ED
DeleteCebeuq qnd Norbert, Where were you last September when the vote splitting CAQ put the PQ in power. Alternate point of view. Bullshit! The PQ has only one point of view and we need only one and that is to get them out. If Francois Legault had never emerged on the scene would not be a bad thing. We would have had no PQ right now. It's people like you that refuse to see the truth that will keep them in power. We are real Quebecers Norbert , we don't need to go anywhere to see real Quebecers.
We are Quebecers with our eyes open. You two sound like Complicated before the election. All he could say was CAQ CAQ, when the CAQ cost the election he still didn't get it. Ed
I voted CAQ last time and will likely vote for them again.
DeleteUnless the Liberals start to support non pure laine people in this province publicly I'll never vote for them again. The Liberals will never do this of course.
The unspoken elephant in the room at all times in Quebec politics is. "Don;t express any love for non francophones, because you might piss off francophones in the process and get no votes." That's an unacceptable policy to me. If expressing support for not harassing citzens means you won;t get elected so be it.
It's called "standing up for principles". Something politicians in Quebec don;t do unless it's endless drama about language rights or other socialist causes.
I'm not a second class citizen and I'm not going to behave like one.
If you try the same thing for 40 years(vote liberal) and nothing changes only an idiot continues on the same course forever hoping for a different end result.
If at the end of the day Quebec can;t be saved from itself we tried our best. Unlike the local "indigenous PQ population" we have the skills and abilities to escape Quebec and the destruction that will come.
It's hard to see a future for children in Quebec even if it doesn;t separate. I don;t want my children living forever in a Quebec like this. Constantly wondering when the next language law will come. Constantly told and reminded they are "the best treated minority etc".
Who wants to live in a jobless socialism province where the only objective is to make make the poor poorer as long as the rich are poorer.
Quebec is happiest as long as they are dragging everybody down to the lowest level.
Language isn;t the real divisive issue in Quebec. It's actually a fight of outdated failed socialist policies from Europe that are forced down our throats. Language is a distraction and convenient label for the fact most immigrants and anglo's support capitalist government systems.
PQ supporters etc only speak french obviously. Language is a PROXY for the real problem.
Nobody cares about language itself. It's simply a tool. It's the propaganda and hate that is the problem.
English or French, hatred and discrimination are the same.
ED, I know you will take this personally, but the Liberals can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather "split the vote" (The CAQ splt the PQ vote too..) and go with the CAQ.
At least they are new to the scene and don;t have the issue of rampant corruption the two other parties have.
Voting for the Liberals/PQ is just a vote for another 40 years of Cliche and Charbonneau commissions.
FROM ED
DeleteFrom cebeuq - "Voting for the Liberals/PQ is just a vote for another 40 years of Cliche and Charbonneau commissions"
from ED - " Voing for CAQ is a vote for four more years of PQ." How can you not get your head around that. Polls today tells us if an election were held now the Liberals would be 5 seats ahead of the PQ and the CAQ would be reduced to five seats. If you can't see that then you are just being uselessly bullheaded. Ed.
ED you seem not to get the message. Quebec is going down. Just a matter of timing.
DeletePQ Quebec is too far gone to be saved.
Liberals are doing nothing but dragging out the inevitable.
Look into addiction and enabling. This is Quebec and the Liberals.
@cebeuq
Delete"Don;t express any love for non francophones, because you might piss off francophones in the process and get no votes." That's an unacceptable policy to me."
you must be happy about jean-francois lisée's work then. finally a government that expresses love for the non francophones. after ten years of total indifference from the liberals. about time, wasn't it?
"I'm not a second class citizen and I'm not going to behave like one."
i'm with you, mate. go cebeuq!
"Constantly wondering when the next language law will come. Constantly told and reminded they are "the best treated minority etc"."
what's wrong with being the best treated minority?!?
"Who wants to live in a jobless socialism province where the only objective is to make make the poor poorer as long as the rich are poorer."
ridiculous.
"Quebec is happiest as long as they are dragging everybody down to the lowest level."
idem.
"At least they (caq) are new to the scene and don;t have the issue of rampant corruption the two other parties have."
they are well under way, mate.
a summary:
http://tinyurl.com/d6xpc6p
more on the fier scandal:
http://tinyurl.com/d3cmaz9
you need to read this book (but only if you want to raise your awareness level):
http://tinyurl.com/ca94rl4
"Constantly wondering when the next language law will come. Constantly told and reminded they are "the best treated minority etc"."
DeleteDudent's reply: "what's wrong with being the best treated minority?!?"
Right there...right fucking there you have the exact reason why you separatists just don't get it, why your jive-ass honky movement is so damn backwards.
For just once in your inexperienced, untraveled life, make the effort to put the shoe on the other foot.
You are ALL wrong !! No provincially elected party can make lasting changes in Québec. If we somehow elect a Federalist (pro-English rights party) and they make changes that would effect the "French" predominant character of Québec, you can be sure they will be removed immediately in the next election and a more radical Anti-English party will replace them and put everything right back to where it was before.
ReplyDeleteTo make the changes that are necessary, we (like it or not) need Federal intervention in order to protect the English language in Québec. Not protect English people's rights but to protect the English language !! To make education of this language and entry into the English school system available to all regardless of mother tongue. To also allow all Québec companies to operate in whichever language they want so long as they are able to also provide services in Québec's official language - French - if they are selling or providing a product or service to the Québec population.
To also for the Provincial Québec Govt to offer services in both English and French where numbers warrant (just as the Federal Govt does now) and to ensure that all companies, hospitals and provincial Govt controlled must also provide this same service and guarantee.
Without Federal intervention, this is all a waste of time with a provincial party.
Why don't you people give a new party a fighting chance? Nothing, but nothing will change and/or will only get worse if we keep letting these language militants ruin this province. You won't even consider the Quebec Conservative Party - it all has to be the liberals (soft nationalist) vs the PQ (full nationalists) all the time. For God's sake, that's what we've had for 40 years and are thing better here? No wonder no new party has a chance to break this stalemate - all of you keep insisting that we repeat and repeat what we know hasn't worked! Dr. Couillard has not said anything as yet to make me believe that the liberals are going to change anything - he even talked about looking at amendments to Bill 14 rather than standing his ground on voting against it in it's entirety. What does that say? Get out and find out about the platforms of the conservatives and the new Equality Party - perhaps they really do have something better to offer than the same old, same old for Christ's sake. Even when these people say they will run candidates only in areas where they can't split the vote, you still stick to the same old tune. Look at what the separatists are doing - they are now on a campaign to ORGANIZE their people into one group to promote independence and we are still talking about giving our votes only to the liberals yet AGAIN when they have done nothing for our plight for 40 years and in fact, at times, have gone right along with the ethnic cleansing policies of the separatists. This place is doomed if we keep following the same strategy again and again when nothing changes with each election. Think about your stand people and stop dooming the Equality Party as an "English" only party - perhaps they are a "Canadian with Rights and Freedoms for all" party! This is about more than language - it's about freedom to live as we wish!
ReplyDeleteI personally HATE the Liberals, CAQ and the PQ as ALL are Anti-English even if they'll state otherwise. Just that fact that they believe Québec must remain a 'French' society even though it clearly isn't just a "French" society makes me sick.
DeleteAll support language laws and restrictions against the English language. They will all tell you that they believe in ensuring that the English keep their schools, yet ALL want to keep Bill 101 intact which is killing our schools year after year. We've gone from over 250,000 to less than 100,000 since it's inception and after speaking to people from the English Montreal School Board, it will continue to drop year after year.
WE NEED FEDERAL INTERVENTION AND WE NEED IT NOW !!!!
NO PROVINCIAL PARTY WILL DO !! As I said above, even if one does make the change, it can be reversed with a new Govt. We need a Federal law that would block ANY Govt from imposing these language laws and restrictions against the English language. It's that simple !!!
I would love to see that also Mike but when I've written to the PM and the Commissioner of Official Languages and complained about this, I was lucky to receive a "thank you for your interest" response and nothing else. If enough people started complaining to the Feds, maybe then some action would be taken but sadly I've learned that you can walk all over our community in quebec and they will still sit back and not do a thing. I don't know what it will take to shake up our fellow Canadians, but they just don't seem to care that their country, language and heritage are slipping away from them due to their apathy. Take a look at what Ian Stone writes on his Alliance Quebec 2.0 website (if it's still up there) - it is very discouraging to live here and see just how apathetic our whole community is.
DeleteSigh..
DeleteWell looks like we're headed towards 10 more years of PQ rule.
But hey, at least it won't be the Liberals, right???
...
You guys will have no right to complain about the situation after the next election, unless you vote for the only possible way out. This blog sure will lose a lot of posters when that day arrives!
Seems that nobody here wants to look at this rationally.
Hey Tree Stump, who do you think caused all this bilingual crap that cost Canadians over a trillion dollars since the 1960's? It was Trudeau and the federal liberal party. It was not done for any equality of language or freedom of anyone, nor for the sake of a lost language. It was done just to keep the people arguing about language so that the government and high up civil servants could rob us blind. The Liberals and Conservatives are all of the same cloth.It matters not if it's Liberal Conservatives or NDP. they are all owned lock stock and barrel by the rich family of Quebec.
DeleteKen, I entirely agree.
DeleteI don't believe in an honest politician, or one who's there to serve the people first. Maybe I'm just too cynical, but time seems to be proving me right.
I simply see it as voting for the best of the worst. We're going to end up with a crook in office anyways, I'd just prefer it not be a separatist.
Anyone but the separatists. And if we're being realistic, the only people in a position to get the PQ out of office are the liberals, unfortunately.
Give me an Equality Party or Conservatives that can beat the PQ (not just in someone's dreams), and they've got my vote.
ANYONE BUT THE SEPARATISTS
With all this vote splitting, we're heading towards 10 more years of separatists.
Quebecer - you have to realize that these people know what they are doing and will not split the vote in areas that are in jeopardy!
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteCutie, you have a bad habit of listening to the last person who talked and going along with them. Let me make it simple
QUEBEC PLUS LIBERALS = MINUS PQ. To say they will not split the votes because they know what they are doing is bullshit. When they are campaigning every party is their enemy and they will not care about splitting the vote. Ed
Ed please, please stop telling me that whom I'm listening to, reading, etc. is affecting my judgement in any way. There is nothing wrong with my thinking processes - just because I don't agree with you does not mean there is something wrong with me or you. I will vote for whom I see fit - that is why this is a democracy. Do you think everyone who does not agree with you is stupid or what. I will not vote for the liberals AGAIN unless they stand up and state what they are going to do to help the minorities in this province. I will no longer blindly vote for any of the parties that are deliberately taking away any more rights or freedoms. Let the liberals make it clear where they stand on this whole debate and then I may change my mind but not until then. ALL taxpayers have a right to know where this is headed before we head for the polls and the politicians have to back up what they stand for. At least the separatists are not sneaky about being separatist; the liberals have proven time after time that they are! And before you make judgements about the other parties, take the time to read what they offer instead of being so fixated on the liberals that you are blind to anything else. That is just downright stubborn. I have been saying the same thing for months so don`t try to make it sound as if this is all new to either one of us!
DeleteOnce the PQ get in finally they will make the province inhospitable enough that people will move out.
DeleteIf Quebec is circling the bowl on the way down the answer isn;t to turn it into a 50 year process. We need to get out of the way and help push it downhill.
I'll say it again..
quebec is like an alcoholic. Until it reaches rock bottom it cannot be saved. Voting Liberal is just delaying the inevitable slow destruction of the province.
The PQ/QS with a full mandate will destroy the province economy in a matter of years.
Organized crime and the unions will have a total run of the place. The PQ will be totally ok with this as long as they can get their petty language laws passed.
Quebec will be 1 step away from a narco state.
Think about how jealous Marious at how much the Venzualans "love" Chavez. Crying at his death like he';s a religious leader.
The PQ love this kind of mindless indoctrination. Finally the PQ will see their rightful place at the head of Quebec society, taking the place of the catholic church for all guidance and decisions.
@cebeuq
Delete"The PQ/QS with a full mandate will destroy the province economy in a matter of years. Organized crime and the unions will have a total run of the place. The PQ will be totally ok with this..."
err... this may ruin your party, but the mafia is with the liberals, mate. i'm surprised you weren't aware.
@Student
DeleteLet go of the hate, huh?
You first bub - your entire movement is rooted in hatred...the proof is in Bill 14 among other things.
So before you go telling others to calm down, you might want to learn a thing or two about "live and let live"
This was a very good article. Regardless of the situation in Israel with its defensive/aggressive actions, your point stands clear. Quebec's policies are racist and oppressive. As a native Montreal I have never felt welcome in the island (in general) and have had to go through a lot of turmoil just to get certain things done. Its not right to be a stranger in my own home. Quebec needs to amend their bills because there is NO REAL THREAT to the french culture and language here. How can a 79% french population, with a higher birth rate then the Anglo community, be overwhelmed by Anglo speakers? The more I say this the more it seems like a bunch of lies to make a power play.
ReplyDeleteSomething has to be done, the PQ policies are degenerative and aggressive. How are people okay with this?!?
Most people are hot happy with it. There is a march on Ottawa from the federal supreme court house in Ottawa at 2 O'clock on Sat the 20th of April to protest the language law and to partition the Native land in upper Quebec. If you want to do something then be there to march to capital hill and protest.
DeleteHi Ken: Who is putting on this march? I've heard nothing about it - can you provide more details please? Interested in partitioning more than just the Native land, that's for sure.
DeleteWe need to support the natives in this effort. If anybody has a legitimate right to exit stage left from Quebec nonsense it's the natives.
DeleteI hope this Ken guy responds to my request - am most interested to read more about it. Haven't heard of it on Facebook or in any paper in this area.
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteCutie, It's the natives of the north protesting combined with other tribes to meet them there. They want their land separated from the PQ power. There is no quick answer. Liberals are the only way. Ed
ED, Liberals are a slow death for Quebec.
DeleteLets speed it up.
Quebec is going down the tubes no matter what. It's just a question of timing.
"Haven't heard of it on Facebook or in any paper in this area."
DeletePar conséquent,une personne intelligente devrait normalement se poser la question sur la pertinence d'un tel événement mais pas miss peggy.
Big difference between "defending yourself" against bombs and terrorist attacks vs someone speaking another language. Not even comparable in any way.
ReplyDeleteNo it's not francophobia. Israel pretty much always does the rights things while Quebec always gets it wrong
ReplyDeleteEditor,
ReplyDeleteShould Arab Israelis;
(...)
Circumcise their male children.
The vast majority of Arabs in Israel are Muslims. And according to Islam, males are indeed circumsized. So the answer is, yes, they certainly not only should, but must.
Now you know.
It's for their own safety. Quebec isn't threatened by anything.
ReplyDeleteYannick - they can put a wall between the Outaouais and quebec and Montreal and quebec and I would be quite happy - partitioning is the answer to end this mess that we find ourselves in. And John Johnson is correct - quebec is not threatened by anything or anyone no matter that they scream and rant about their language and culture; they are not under attack in any way and I'm sick of them saying they area. Bunch of bullshit.
ReplyDeleteJohn Johnson, your argumentation is weak and you are defending the indefensible.
ReplyDeleteOne of my francopone friends recently said to me that the finest three words in the French language, that should be at the foundation of society, are "liberte, equalite, fraternite". Such a pity that this is not the case in Quebec, and that Bill 101 is actually the very antithesis of such principles or rights.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the Equality Party should adopt the other two words?
And 99% would leave after separation.
ReplyDeleteIt's either that or live in ghetto's or be interred in camps.
@ugBSdc
ReplyDelete"Caroline Lefebvre
I`m sorry to say that it goes both way. I used to work in Calgary and whenever I had a French customer I was not aloud serving him in French not to offend anyone letting them think we were talking about them... Paranoia when you are getting us..."
Issshhh...
FROM ED
DeleteI'm sick of people complaining about the Liberals invoking bill 101 so I'm repeating my answer to Mr.Sauga earlier.
In 1977 i was happy to see bil 101.I was 41. Bill 101 was brought in for good reasons. My kids were scared my wife was worried and I worried about my family when I was miles away and unable to protect them. It was a much worse feeling than WWII because the war we new the enemy was far away and the troops were there to protect us.
Suddenly the enemy was living amongst us with bombs and we didn't know who they were It is hell wondering if your kids would mail a letter and get blown up doing it. We looked at our neighbours with suspicion especially Francophones who looked or acted different. Bill 101 brought an end to the FLQ threat and gave us all relief. You had to be there to feel how much easier we breathed knowing the militants felt they had won and the second war we had lived through was over. Bill 101 did the trick.Anglos and Francos started to smile at each other again. The requirements that only English children went to English schools and Franco children went to french school was asked for by the protestant school board because French Children whose parents had lived through the Education of the Catholic church days were flocking to English school in numbers they couldn't handle. Robert Bourrassa was a good man basically serving those who had elected him, the Francophones of Quebec. he did not do anything just to hurt Anglophones. Back then no one took it personally. Now, you would be historians are telling people what happened and you don't even know.. You act as though you lived through it and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. You have no idea knowing what it's like to fear very day for your children's lives. After that i voted Liberal and left things in their capable hands.I have not been pleased with everything they did but I am not dissatisfied. Ed
Ed - I can't tell if you're talking tongue in cheek, or being completely serious. If the latter, then there is something seriously wrong with you and anyone else who follows your mindset.
DeleteSo Bill 101 is a necessary and welcome tool to keep the peace? The closest analogy I can think of is a husband who violently beats his wife, because, let's say, he has decided she's become unattractive. The husband then decrees he will stop his physical beatings IF she agrees to stay prisoner inside the house, and not allowed to see anyone or speak to any of her friends. He is now "protecting" her, as according to him, her appearance is offensive. The wife agrees this is a POSITIVE THING, because the physical violence has stopped and it's OK to waive her basic human rights because the husband knows best.
Yeah Ed, guess where you fit in this analogy. YOU are married to Quebec, in an abusive relationship...and too blind to see what is wrong!
I'm sorry, BUT UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCE OR SITUATION, can the hate doctrine known as the Charter of the French Language (Bill 101) but justifiable or accepted.
As for going back to the analogy of the abusive husband and wife. No Ed, peace is just an illusion or a temporary stand off. Like violent husband, I can guarantee you, if you passively accept the abuse and even welcome it, the violence WILL return. In real cases like this, usually the husband ends up killing the wife. Make no doubts about it, things will eventually turn to violence in Quebec and that's not fantasy, IT ALREADY HAS (e.g. That groups of people physically assaulted for speaking English in downtown Montreal, boy punched in face for publicly speaking English, metro ticket ticket attacking that woman). We haven't even started yet.
You either break the cycle and get help....or, face the reality of what is coming next.
The Charter of the French Language/Bill 101 should be used a toilet paper. It is garbage, it is hate, it is pure and utter contempt and filth that stands against basic human freedoms, equality and civil rights. And guess who supports this so-called charter? Your Quebec Liberal friends.
I can only imagine what your take on Bill 14 is. I almost hate to say it, but like Mr. Sauga has said, you almost deserve what you get.
Unfortunately Apple you're absolutely right. We need new parties to run for office and try to get rid of all the abuse of our rights and freedoms and the liberals sure as hell, so far, are not it. "Splitting the vote idea" has to be put on the back burner and we have to start voting for the party that offers a way out of this stranglehold that ALL our politicians have been placing ahead of our rights for the past 40 years. The mindset itself of always voting liberal just because they say they are federalist is BS - they have proven otherwise for the past 40 years enacting and supporting all the repressive bills of the separatists instead of just saying "NO".
DeleteL'aménagement linguistique dans le monde
Deletehttp://www.axl.cefan.ulaval.ca/
@Apple
DeleteI promise you...and this is a guarantee: if I ever become premier of Quebec, not only will I make the abolishment of bill 101 my first act...
...I will eat about 30 pounds of Mexican food the night before and then, right there at the press conference, I will stand on the table, pants down and wipe my ass with that filthy rag that any "non-racist" human being should be completely ashamed of in the first place.
Honestly, I would prefer to see a PQ majority with a solid presence for the Equality Party (say equal to what the CAQ now has--about 19 seats) than having the Liberals back in power and the PQ the official opposition. Same-old status quo of the past 40 years, Parti Quebecois and Liberals--or our very own Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum in Quebec Wonderland. Where has that gotten us? Not just in terms of rights and freedoms (which are non-existent) but the economy and the state of this province in general.
DeleteImagine if the Liberals lose because people are suddenly voting for the Equality party instead. They might stop and think about whether to continue catering to the racist nationalists.
Unfortunately I think this province is too far gone to save it. I don't see any positive changes or drastic turn around any time in the near future, and certainly not in my lifetime (and I'm still young!). Apart from two immediately family members, I have no attachment to this godawful province. No property either, as my childhood home was recently sold. I'd really like nothing more than to move on with life and start over in Ontario or elsewhere. I'm done with Quebec.
Ce n'est certainement pas un parti pro-anglo qui va faire augmenter la sympathie des Québécois envers votre groupe culturel.
Delete@apple iigs
Delete"Honestly, I would prefer to see a PQ majority with a solid presence for the Equality Party (say equal to what the CAQ now has--about 19 seats) than having the Liberals back in power and the PQ the official opposition."
makes total sense. such an assembly would represent various interests much better. tough to enact with people like ed who vote against what they dislike instead of voting for what they like.
"I'd really like nothing more than to move on with life and start over in Ontario or elsewhere. I'm done with Quebec."
i wish you become a happy and successful ontarian if this is what you long for. try to avoid the roads that would make another mr sauga out of you.
"And 99% would leave after separation."
ReplyDeleteJ'adore l'expression "Good riddance!"
@Ed
ReplyDeleteThat land belonged to the Jewish population since God knows when.
As Diogenes pointed out earlier:
ReplyDelete"Thanks for your deep, well-thought out rebuttal, Serge. Your incisive analysis has given all of us a lot to think about."
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteTo John Johnson.
In the 1940's it was called Palestine. There were damn few Jews living there. We're living in modern times not biblical. The Jews deserted Canaan for Egypt. Exodused to Judah and then Canaan. The Palestinians lived there all their lives. They decided they wanted a homeland and in 1945 the world gave it to them. The squeaking wheel gets the grease. Harry Truman said he helped get them what they wanted because he got fed up with David Ben Gurion crying on his desk. After the war the US had power and the world obeyed them. When the Jews moved in they took the land from the Palestinians. Ed
@john johnson
ReplyDeleteso you're fine wih an american native bulldozing your house?
(assuming you have a house in america)
SR don;t worry, it's a two way street. Once I leave Quebec I won;t be returning and I'll be happy to see your back.
ReplyDeleteUnlike you I'm an entrepreneur. I'll be taking all the jobs of my employee's with me!
Last one to leave, turn out the lights!
Student what does "bulldozing one's house" has to do with our discussion.
ReplyDeleteThe US is finally starting to pick up on this
ReplyDeletehttp://world.time.com/2013/04/08/quebecs-war-on-english-language-politics-intensify-in-canadian-province/
Tu devrais regarder les commentaires steven,ça intéresse personne.Les amerlocs ont des problèmes plus graves et plus urgents à régler,rien à foutre des p'tits canadians,allez vous plaindre à harper,c'est lui votre chef,pas Obama.Mdr!
DeleteGood to see the number of comments on blogs outside the province!
DeleteAnthropologie online not allowed online. Hahahaha
Laws like this are meant to be broken. It's Quebec. The only people that follow the laws are anglo's and immigrants as they let the PQ snuff themselves out.
Organized crime, politicians, civil servants, unions, students etc. They don;t follow the laws.
People need to realize they should do what they want in Quebec. Scams, stealing, fraud etc. Just follow it up with an apology and you'll walk away with a handshake and a smile form the authorities.
As Pauline says. We are a culture that forgives! Of course, how else can you steal from yourself with such a smile!
By being constantly law abiding citizens in this dysfunctional province we are exterminating ourselves.
As we've been told over and over "Quebec has a culture of rebellion and unrest". SR cover your eyes.
"What's good for the gander is good for the geese!"
"Anthropologie online not allowed online."
DeleteDes hors-la-loi?
1500 comments on the TIME article in 24 hours! Now that's impressive!!!
Delete@john johnson
ReplyDeletewell, this thing http://tinyurl.com/bp6vnz5 isn't it used to destroy palestinian houses like this one http://tinyurl.com/bn4fpgp ?
and this is justified because "That land belonged to the Jewish population since God knows when". right?
so could a american native use the same justification to flatten your house?
(assuming you have a house in america)
"Unlike you I'm an entrepreneur."
ReplyDeleteTant mieux alors.Mdr!
Poor PQ supporter still thinks happiness and self worth is something that comes from being on welfare and having the government provide for all your needs.
ReplyDeleteQuebec media mostly missed out on the new world survey that found France among the most unhappy people on the planet despite living in their idea socialist fantasy.
Personal accomplishment and success rather than being the basis for a happy productive life is savaged in Quebec as "capitalism" instead of normal human endeavor.
Start to think for yourself before the PQ makes that illegal too.
Quebec needs a French Margaret Thatcher. Now that would be good.
SR and student can go on strike against their blogging jobs today in preparation.
"amerlocs ont des problèmes plus graves et plus urgents à régler,rien à foutre des p'tits canadians,allez vous plaindre à harper,c'est lui votre chef,pas Obama.Mdr!"
ReplyDeleteIs that really french or just gibberish?
-5 points on your test
@cebeuq
ReplyDelete"Poor PQ supporter still thinks happiness and self worth is something that comes from being on welfare and having the government provide for all your needs."
ridiculous.
"Quebec media mostly missed out on the new world survey that found France among the most unhappy people on the planet despite living in their idea socialist fantasy."
chirac and sarkozy were not socialists, mate.
what survey? care to share the link? how did denmark fare?
“Shouldn't the Arabs be encouraged to embrace the mainstream culture and identity of the majority in order to create a cohesive society?”
ReplyDeleteIn every country, should not everyone be encouraged to embrace a mainstream culture?
The problem might be that the arab identity does not mix well in the jewish identity since one cannot be jew AND muslim. (Perhaps there should be a isreali identity that is more than jewishness, something that would include the arabs. But Israel and jewishness are closely interrelated. Perhaps the jewish majority could try to be less jew to please the arab minority?)
This being said, there is a major difference between Israël and Québec : Israël is an independent state.
In Québec, there are two governments struggling for power on a same territory. The english minority, favoring federalism (, the federal governement or fighting separatism/nationalism) tilts the balance of power which annoys the french majority. The history of Québec has been for the last two and a half centuries a quest for a greater autonomy and the english minority’s political action is an obstacle in this quest, hence the tension.
In Israël, if the arabs do not integrate to the majority, they remain in a political no man’s land, they become at worst a force of inertia but they do not tilt the balance of power in favor of another power since the State of Israël in the only power on its own territory.
Should arabs “Speak Hebrew in public?”
ReplyDeleteBill 101 doesn't forbid to speak english in public.
Should arabs “Watch Hebrew television and movies?”
Well, they should not have to. But if they want to know and understand better the society that surrounds them, well, maybe it is not a bad idea. But, you know, they don’t have to.
"Bill 101 doesn't forbid to speak english in public."
DeleteBill 101 doesn't, but a culture fostered by 101 does induce a certain level of "expectation", and produces aggressive militants and moderately belligerent "civilians", giving them an excuse to pursue the violators of the "spirit" (NOT the letter) of the law.
In any case, I'd like to get off this thread now, I have a problem with this piece (Quebec PR people, promoting Quebec abroad, often stress the openness of Quebeckers by citing a climate of respect for the gay community, which is true, Quebeckers are open to it unlike other parts of the world, the problem with it is that it serves to cover for linguistic intolerance...same with Israel and pointing out how tolerant it is on language...and it may be tolerant on language, except so what).
Maybe we can pick it up in another thread.
I completely agree with you Adski. I've already pointed out my discomfort about this blog entry.
DeleteIn Canada, French is a language of ambition, not decline
ReplyDeletehttp://m.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/in-canada-french-is-a-language-of-ambition-not-decline/article10809725/?service=mobile
In Quebec, English is a language of ambition, not decline
DeleteI agree with protecting the French heritage. I just disagree with doing it by state power, by waging a culture war, by playing identity politics, and by keeping people in an endless state of cultural emergency. This is where I have a bone to pick with Quebec nationalists and with people like G.Fraser who wax lyrically about noble objectives, but fail to mention the methods. They harp on the ends while tucking away the means, and by means I don't necessarily mean just bill 101, but its effect on culture.
DeleteWhere I differ with the Canadian/Quebecois way of "protecting" French is in my refusal to accept that only a strong state combined with a culture of vigilance, denunciation of fellow citizens, a state of personal alertness and mutual surveillance can protect French. The problem with this reasoning is the difficulty in ascertaining whether it's about protecting French, or about a strong state, whether it's about culture, or about authoritarians looking for an excuse, whether it's about cultural sensitivity, or about power lust? It might be a mix of both, but with the latter element definitely there.
FROM ED
DeleteMichel, The British stole no land. After the seven years war France ceded it's colonies in North America to England. ed
Mr Ed,
Delete“The British stole no land. After the seven years war France ceded it's colonies in North America to England.”
If France willingly ceded its colonies, how strange that the british had to use weapons...
Nevertheless, true, France ceded its colonies. And nevertheless, the british took what we had built before they came and comfortably settled themselves at the top of the social pyramid. It would just be nice that they remember this when lecturing us about how generous they have been to us (or about the soft heartedness of queen Victoria...).
Michel, please don't twist what people say. Ed said that France ceded its colonies to England after the Seven Years' War, which is factual. You deceitfully added the word "willingly", which is not the consequence of engaging in war.
DeleteYou are also implying that, had the French won the war, they wouldn't have taken what the British built and comfortably settled themselves at the top of the social pyramid, just the same as any victor would do.
R.S.
DeleteI am not implying that french would not have done the same thing. They probably would have and the effects of their action on the local conquered population would probably have been similar. There is no shortage of criticism of colonialism in the former french empire.
Just a little note that has little to do with the main topic.
ReplyDelete“Let us also remember that Israel is a creation of the United Nations, duly formed and constituted under the auspices of a free vote in the General assembly, more than Canada and Quebec can claim, both which basically stole the land from the natives.”
During their first winter in the new world, more than half of Champlain’s men died of scorbus and dysentery in a hostile and alien environment.
During their first winter in Québec, the british spent the winter in warm and comfortable houses, eating the food that had been harvested in the surrounding fields.
So, may I ask, who the bristish stole the land from?
Ordinarily, I might take you up on this debate, Michel.
DeleteBut here's the thing:
You're basing your entire raison d'être on something that happened hundreds of years ago.
You weren't around then.
Neither was your daddy.
And you're daddy's daddy wasn't there either.
We're living in the present, champion.
We're living in the 3-bedroom house, central heating, Facebook, St. Huber's, Facebook, smartphone, 24-hour online porn, 2 cars per household, cure for syphilis present.
Get where I'm going with this?
Over two hundred years ago a few habitant troops were hung.
I don't fucking care.
I also don't fucking care about the English troops that died in the same war.
Time for you romanticists and others with a penchant for melodramatic nostalgia
to build a goddamn bridge and move forward.
'Nuff said.
Good question. It depends how far back you want to go. Since William the Conqueror's force was comprised of Normans, Bretons and French, all from what is modern day France, you could say it was a former French colony stealing from France what France stole from the natives.
DeleteDiogenes, stop making sense.
DeleteYou know the Bougon Party hates it when you do that.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteThe closest analogy I can think of is a husband who violently beats his wife, because, let's say, he has decided she's become unattractive. The husband then decrees he will stop his physical beatings IF she agrees to stay prisoner inside the house, and not allowed to see anyone or speak to any of her friends. He is now "protecting" her, as according to him, her appearance is offensive. The wife agrees this is a POSITIVE THING, because the physical violence has stopped and it's OK to waive her basic human rights because the husband knows best.
Honestly, I would prefer to see a PQ majority with a solid presence for the Equality Party (say equal to what the CAQ now has--about 19 seats) than having the Liberals back in power .
tHESE ARE QUOTES FROM THE WRITING OF APPLE IIGS. a totally nonsensical analogy of the stupidest bullshit I've ever seen. The one statement that explains the whole thing is where he says He would rather see the PQ have a majority. This shows his true colours he is a separatist, by his own admission. I must admit he had us fooled into thinking he was on our side but he makes it clear he wants the PQ i power.
Guys like him and Cebeuq see this as a game. let's enjoy Quebecers and their homes go down the tubes when it happens, I'll leave laughing. You guys are no better than Une Gars or Sauga. Laughing while others suffer.
When the people from Europe straggled in after WWII Apple would tell them "You were actually married to Hitler, mein kampf was a positive thing if you read it right." What an idiot. he makes it clear he wants the PQ and because he's against the Liberals Cutie tells him he's right.. You three pretend to hate the PQ but would reelect them to spite the Liberals.
Back stabbing wolves in sheep's clothing, you don't belong among us on this blog. People here are honest one way or the other. Ed.
FROM ED
DeleteSANDY McTIRE, I would like to ask your advice as a lawyer privately, I will gladly pay your fee. How can I raech you at your office.? Ed
Ed seriously.
DeleteIt's not that I see it as a game, it's just that unlike you I'm willing to move out of Quebec. Quebec has little economic potential and business potential outside of scams and Quebec Inc. (IE videotron, SNC, Bombardier etc)
I'm the only family member left in Quebec already.
Everyone else in the family already left during the referendums and other language harassment over the years.
In my high school class reunion I went to we figured 80% of the people from our class had left Quebec in the last 30 years. Obvioulsy we arn;t talking about PQ union members here. These are billingual educated people looking to start a family.
The best planis probably have some kinds in Quebec, let the govt pay the 1 year salary and then leave. Make sure to saddle Quebec with costs.
It's good to talk to people that have already left. They will re-assure you it's not such a scary thing to leave Quebec.
Moving is better then living in Quebec unable to make a living and being harassed as anglo trash.
There is an entire world out there that doesn;t think "rights to be wronged".
How insane the M Patrice worry about troops hundreds of years ago. Shows the two solitudes in thinking..
FROM ED
DeleteAlright Cebeuq, So I'm like Davy Crockett at the Alamo. Fighting to the death. There's nothing wrong with that as long as you stiill see a way to win. I believe there is a chance to win and so I fight to achieve it. What I find hard to take is people that really don't care shooting down those that are trying to make headway. If it makes no difference to you whether we can win politically that's fine with me but why shoot down our efforts to achieve it. I moved to Vancouver in 1972 to get my family away from the FLQ bombs. Two years later we moved back because we found the people and the atmosphere so cold compared to Quebec
I have no problem living here. I may be the only one on this blog that's fighting for right in general. I've got what I expect from the Liberals in Quebec; a government that looks after the people who elected it. (Francophones who want to stay part of Canada) If that's too much to understand then take the PQ but don't ask the rest of us to suffer with you. Many English families are ingrained deeply here with intermarriage and kids in different schools. This is not a joke to them, they are living life the best they can. They need the quickest way out and the Quickest way is the Liberal Party unless we ruin it for them so they have to go on suffering. Ed
HAH. So tell me, ED, just how and where is my analogy flawed?
DeleteThe FLQ enacted violence and murder. Instead of denouncing them, you believe the answer is to woo them and their supporters (i.e. the "Purelain Quebecois") into complacency by allowing the Charter of the French Language to go unchallenged? Oh hey, speaking of Mein Kampf, if hate ramblings scribbled on paper could have relatives, Bill 101 would be a close cousin of it! That I do not say tongue in cheek. Same basic goal of ethnic cleansing, just the Quebecois have written it in a more refined and bureaucratic way.
And like in my analogy, you are the abused wife who actually DEFENDS her abuser, standing up for him. Even going as far as saying she deserves the abuse. You approve of Bill 101, need I say more?
I'm a separatist? I support the PQ? Well, you obviously don't know me well or read enough of my postings to this blog, in particular some of what I've gone through recently with Quebec's language laws and hatred they've stirred up while dealing with my father's terminal cancer. I despise the PQ with every ounce of my being! However, like Mr. Sauga, at this point I rather the PQ continue on their course and hasten the destruction of this miserable province/cesspool. Please, LET them take Quebec out of Canada and do us all a favour! If they don't, Canadians need to wake up and kick Quebec out of Canada themselves. Quebec is an embarrassment to Canada (and all western nations!), and bringing the whole country down. I rather leave for Ontario and watch Quebec sink and burn. There is so much wrong with this province I cannot even begin to express my frustrations with it...
Worse than that are people like yourself who approve of Bill 101, the Liberals (who are essentially wolves in sheep clothing!) and the state of things in Quebec as they are now. There were Jews in Poland who defended the action of the Nazis party, even supported them. When push came to shove though, they were not spared, they were sent to the death camps along with the others. Remember that next time you give a nod of approval to Bill 101 and parties who support it!
FROM ED
DeleteSorry Apple, I no longer read anything you write. Rant to yourself. Ed
@ed
Deletecome on ed. you need to forgive apple iigs. i think he proved he's as wacko as anyone. he even performed a double godwin to prove his worth!
FROM ED
DeleteYannick , For the absolute truth about Bill 101 please read my post of 12:10 today. I have never put anything so heartfelt on this blog. I got chills thinking about how I worried for the Kids at the time. my wife wanted to stop them from going to their YMCA, Scouts, Guides etc. The relief Bill 101 gave the community was like getting out of prisons. But today some Jackass who knows nothing comes along making fun of our suffering with stupidity about anologies. Only someone who lived it would know. I wish more people my age would speak up. I say again you had to be there to know about it. How could anyone possibly believe that an intellectual like Bourrassa would suddenly create something to annoy the Anglos who gave him such support unless he felt it necessary?. Ed
Diogenes,
Delete“It depends how far back you want to go.”
True, the land belonged to someone else before and we could pointlessly go back to the beginning of times. In fact, the british did not actually take our land, they took our work and our investment in the land (the houses, the plowed fields, the fortifications, the commercial network, etc), and that work and that investment were ours.
Michel,
DeleteThat tended to happen to the losing side in a war. I find it fascinating that you still refer to your ancestors of 250 years ago as "we". In the late 1800's, my great grandmother got fleeced out of a prosperous business when her husband died unexpectedly at a young age, but my family never thinks of it as "we" got ripped off, and that's recent history compared to what you're talking about. Perhaps that's the problem with the hard-core francos in general: you guys are still nursing a centuries old grudge. You can't drive forward if your eyes are glued to the rear-view mirror.
You are right, it is funny that I use "we".
DeleteThat your great grandmother got fleeced out of business probably did not change the history of your whole family, the history of the society that you live in and the history of a continent. The seven year war and the conquest did.
" [...]you guys are still nursing a centuries old grudge."
This is a false impression from ongoing arguments on Internet.
It is late and I will not take the time to go throught this long discussion. But I found back something I wrote a while ago :
"I simply look at my society and at its history and try to understand our present time.
[...] when I look at Québec I see a society that have been conquered, that have lived for centuries surrounded by overwelming millions of english speakers in a now english dominated world, that had to deal with the then world dominating british empire and I see a society that has survived, lived and florished against all odds, that has turned a land of ice and rocks into a confortable world. We are a kind of miracle. I don’t live in resentment and bitterness."
(Quand parfois je relis ce que j'ai écrit auparavant, je vois que j'ai une certaine tendance au lyrisme.)
I am not still nursing a centuries old grudge. But I understand that is is hard to understand. It has also been said before that acadians relive over and over their past traumas and that they should move on (my ancestors were in fact acadians, not from New France...). Yet, it is a misconception. (http://michelpatrice.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/acadians-endlessly-re-living-past-traumas-over-and-over/)
Nevertheless, you did make the Freudian slip of referring to ancient history as "we" and "our". When you do this, it most certainly sounds like you are still nursing a centuries-old grudge, despite your protestations to the contrary.
DeleteYou do realize that India was also "conquered, survived, lived and flourished", right? Same with Burma, Hong Kong, Kenya, Tanzania and many other places. Quebec is hardly unique in this respect. Rather, it was the French model of colonialism for its colonies to become “French” and therefore “perfect”, such as in Indochina, Martinique and Guadeloupe.
@cebeuq - like you, I'm a fellow entrepreneur, but I'll let you know right now, not to get all bent out of shape by S.R and Student.
ReplyDeleteLike many colons who belong to the sovereignist movement they don't have the faintest notion of cause and effect and have even less of an understanding of basic economics.
Like children they believe that any money that goes out eventually comes back in as if by magic.
They seriously believe in "cold fusion economics" that state funds are created from nothing.
This is one of the reasons Dudent took offense to your statement: "Poor PQ supporter still thinks happiness and self worth is something that comes from being on welfare and having the government provide for all your needs."
...because your truth offended him.
Just as the seppies try to comfort themselves by regurgitating the mantra that their movement keeps losing because of anglos and les maudits ethnics...
...we can charge that they only reason their movement has any steam left is because of the "Bougon" vote.
Go back to your shanties.
Sans indiscrétion de quelle origine êtes-vous,Résidu d'enfer?Est-ce dans notre système solaire?
ReplyDelete"Sans indiscrétion de quelle origine êtes-vous,Résidu d'enfer?Est-ce dans notre système solaire?"
ReplyDeleteSee what I mean?
We're talking about economics and state funding and this is the best Father Bougon can offer.
Not an ounce of education or understanding of the way the system functions or the dynamics of perpetuating its survival...just pointless, childish quibbling.
@resident evil
ReplyDelete"We're talking about economics and state funding..."
can you quote yourself please? i don't see where you were talking about economics.
Non,ça c'est scatologique,pas économique.
ReplyDeleteLe saviez-vous?
ReplyDelete"Tandis qu’au Québec le débat sur l’enseignement de l’anglais resurgit périodiquement, la plupart des grandes universités chinoises viennent de prendre une décision qui peut surprendre ceux qui pensent que cette langue est indispensable. Ces universités viennent d’éliminer l’épreuve d’anglais de leurs concours d’entrée. Les futurs étudiants en sciences doivent passer des tests d’entrée en mathématique et en physique, tandis que ceux qui s’orientent vers les sciences humaines devront passer un examen de mathématique et de chinois. Exit l’anglais."
Sylvain Latulippe"
http://blogues.journaldemontreal.com/marcotte/parti-quebecois/gue-guerres-linguistiques-et-gros-christie-de-niaisage/
Excellente nouvelle :)
It's their own problem if they lack ambition
ReplyDeleteThere will be no change in quebec politics if there are many "Eds" out there with their damn stupid idea of voting for the same old parties (that have changed nothing and that have not promised to change anything) are elected back into office with the same number of votes. I admit I worry about splitting the vote also but am no longer going to vote for anyone that does not promise to change the miserable fucking way we are treated in this province. If I hear the expression once more "this is quebec" I'm going to throw up right on the person's shoes! I heard it again this morning in Canadian Tire when I asked how come they were eliminating some English signs and the clerk said "this is quebec" - FUCK I know it's quebec - next time I'm going to say "which is part of Canada which has two official languages"! They've gone too fucking far now - we are at peace nowhere in this prick of a province!
Delete@cutie003
Delete"...next time I'm going to say "which is part of Canada which has two official languages"
why didn't you say it this time?!?
p.s. very nasty comment: swearwords, vomit, it's got it all. keep it up!
"FUCK I know it's quebec"
DeleteHmm...pas certain peggy.Vous semblez éprouver certains problèmes de mémoire.
OK kids... little activity here:
ReplyDeleteAre the statements made in this article by this diarrhea-guzzler more contradictory than they are absolutely psychotic?
http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Hard+line+language+groups+suggests+abolishing+Quebec/8217410/story.html
Proof the seppies are done like dinner.
This is exactly the kind of anglo hatred that we need. more more.
DeleteShows the true colors of Independent Quebec.
Petty small minded vindictive racists. They only know how to destroy and ruin other people lives.
Health care not being provided in official languages is a very important point. Imagine the level of hatred you have to have for your fellow citizens to deny them care in their own languague when they are sick.
It helps to show how truly racist these people are.
The seppies can;t hide their true power base away from public view forever.
"A society is measured by how it treats it's weakest members."
Lets revisit this week already.
CLOSE ALL ANGLO HOSPITALS
PQ cancels a program to keep homeless people in apartments
So Quebec as usual is just one big
FAIL
This is another example of how the guy has earned his place as Pasta Chaser #4 on the Editor’s Top Ten Pasta Chaser Hall of Shame™ two weeks ago. He is so extremely radical that even the PQ dissociated itself from his comments right away. To quote the Editor’s description of him:
Delete“A dedicated über-separatist, he has a visceral hatred of all things English and while making all sorts of French demands on the Ottawa side of the river, seeks to remove every last word of English from Quebec. He is so militant that he objects to Gatineau being included in the National Capital region.
Mr. Perreault reminds me of the Energizer Bunny, he just keeps going and going and going, year after a year.
Like all true pasta-chasers he is a dedicated perseverer, going from one battle on to the next, never losing his zeal or religion. His organization's website is a humourous collection of screeds and rants, written by whinging pasta chasers, bathed in self-pity and paranoia.”
And another thing - weren't the seppies running Graham Fraser into the ground a few weeks ago now all of a sudden his words mean something? Shows that people are great WHEN THEY ARE BEING SUPPORTED - and going back to the 70's we should have put an end to their uprising at that time (if we are to keep reliving history on this blog). Kept the FLQ members in jail for life and get rid of this stupid movement from the beginning. The world will learn from this big error on our part.
ReplyDelete"...get rid of this stupid movement..."
Deletewhat do you mean?
@cutie003
Delete"weren't the seppies running Graham Fraser into the ground a few weeks ago now all of a sudden his words mean something?"
isn't it healthy to consider graham fraser's words all the time, and sometimes to agree and some other times not to? isn't it better than what you do: branding a dude forever and bashing accordingly, like you do with legault, lisée and me?
http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/ottawa/2012/03/03/003-manifestation-hopital-cornwall.shtml
ReplyDeleteManifestation contre le bilinguisme à l'Hôpital de Cornwall
Le canada n'a pas deux langues officielles?
"Le canada n'a pas deux langues officielles?"
DeleteOui.
Au quebec? Non.
Officiellement oui mais c'est totalement l'inverse dans la réalité ... Étrange.
DeleteMoi c'est pour cette raison que je dis le francais au quebec et l'anglais au canada.
DeleteCeux/celles qui n'aiment pas, demenagez ou votre langue est majoritaire.
Pourtant pas complique... meme que ce blog n'aurait aucune raison d'etre et le bilinguisme officiel coute deja trop cher pour rien.
It takes Radio-Canada to dig up this non-issue. Seriously, I don't think anyone cares. Cornwall Hospital already offers service in french with a much shorter ER wait times. Even, I could make the case, Quebeckers are better served in Ontario than in Quebec. http://offislandgazette.com/news/story/2013/01/08/off-islanders-swell-ontario-hospitals/
DeleteYannick, I must say I don’t really appreciate your language about Quebec AND Canada as you are implying that Quebec is not part of Canada, even though I know this was not your intention.
DeleteRadio-Canada seems to be equating the situation of a small town of 46,000 people with that of a province of 8,000,000. Even though I disagree with the protest in principle, they are glossing over proportion.
The OP is deceitfully trying to raise an employment protest during an economic downturn as being a protest against official languages.
“Un Gars” should keep in mind that Quebec does not belong to francophones. It is not and never has been French-only. Anglophones have been part of Quebec society for centuries, were instrumental in developing its culture and economy and have no business moving anyplace else on account of some people’s insecurities. Francophones are not the only people with a right to survive here. Also, he should keep in mind that there is a reason why when the Republic of Ireland was created, Northern Ireland was partitioned from it.
"It takes Radio-Canada to dig up this non-issue." - Liam
DeleteApparently the editor also doesn't see it at as a non-issue.
Official Bilingualism did make the civil service more reflective of the demographics of Canada and helped French Speakers outside of Quebec receive Federal services in French. I have no problem with official bilingualism.
ReplyDeleteYannick is also right about the Fringe WASP groups in the rest of Canada. There is even one poster James Wolfe who reminds me of Tammy Hart from South Stormont.
Though the Francophones in Ontario don't have to worry about some office of some bureaucrats falling over each other to rollback bilingualism in the province to cater to the Fringe, that is the difference between the Rest of Canada and Quebec. I also think that while there was always some anti Francophone prejudice it peaked due to the backlash from bill 101.
Yannick, the article you cited doesn't say what you claim it did; rather, it merely said that anglos are wary of the PQ (and with good reason, I might add). Also, even if it did say what you claim, "considering" leaving doesn't mean actually leaving.
ReplyDeleteFROM ED
ReplyDeleteYannick, I agree with most of what you say here. I have to admit that as an anglo in Quebec I live alright. I don't care about sign language. When a friend asked why the Weather network on my computer is in French I answered, why not? He explained that I could change it to English but the temperature outside stays the same in french or English so why bother. The same for Hydro and Bell, all in French is just as good. I get wonderful service at the Verdun hospital where everyone speaks to me in English.
When I call hydro, Bell or any other facility, I simply press 2 and have no problem. So i live my life in English. if french bothers you, simply don't use it, speak English. They'll get used to it. The only danger I see here is bill 14 which haas not been adopted and most likely never will. In the words of Rene Levesque, "OK everybody take a valium." sit back and let's see what happens.
The Equality party will be an Anglo party. That precedent has already been set and will be remembered that way. The Seps will say it's a party revived by a disgruntled anglo who was angry with an Urgence Sante man for speaking French. True or not that's the way they will promote it.. When it splits the vote and elects the PQ, the supporters will complain loudly for another four years. Ed
The comparison with Israel is ridiculous. The Palestinians (including Arab Israelis) are a recently conquered people. Anglo-Quebeckers are the descendents of the conquerors, not the conquered. If anything they are the ones that are driving the assimilation of the conquered (Franco-Quebeckers) into mainstream North American (Anglo) society. However that would be a an exaggeration. The Francos are the main responsibles for that.
ReplyDeleteAs for the supposed hypocrisy of Quebeckers towards Israel... Editor, you have to stop these mornoic generalizations. Quebeckers are not all alike. I think you will find that those who support Palestinians also generally support indigenous movements.