tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post3812929316720318988..comments2024-02-17T03:22:53.951-05:00Comments on No Dogs or Anglophones: Quebec Botching Immigrant FrancizationEditorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05699783315783642466noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-52352112043405352692010-11-15T19:47:21.605-05:002010-11-15T19:47:21.605-05:00For the youngsters in the first paragraphs, let me...For the youngsters in the first paragraphs, let me recommend the history of linguistics from Perret, a book you should read. <br />You will learn that Quebec "joual" is not a patois. Joual is a word which means a horse, a horse which was running fast to escape his capture (from the English). It is not to be used to depreciate in a pejorative way the status of the brave Quebecois. The idioms in our language are complex and generally patois are languages which are successful and colourful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-1747802202669079902010-11-15T17:42:28.005-05:002010-11-15T17:42:28.005-05:00Quebec French is as different than the French from...Quebec French is as different than the French from Alsace or from Normandy. English-speaking from Ontario speak differently than the ones from the south of England and from the North of England. Why being so disdainful, because you don't speak anything else but English from your lovely Canada ? When you live in Ontario because you did not choose it, you have to face everyday you will die in a hospital surrounded with English nurses only. You have the choice in Montreal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-76616502580290429242010-11-15T17:36:19.494-05:002010-11-15T17:36:19.494-05:00I miss something... for years. Why should Quebec b...I miss something... for years. Why should Quebec be bilingual? Ontario is not bilingual. It's a joke. Only some receptionist from PEI are hired and it is so difficult to understand their French, I'd rather speak English. <br />If you come from Quebec they will make you wait, they will hire someone from France or Belgium without verifying their real credentials. So Quebec is a French Province, since 400 years, it will remain French, it evolves in French, and the rest of Canada doesn't like it! Well too bad. You are the ones calling yourself the rest.. wouf, wouf!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-9401417477987898552010-11-03T19:21:22.412-04:002010-11-03T19:21:22.412-04:00@ Diane:
The differences between colloquial Quebe...@ Diane:<br /><br />The differences between colloquial Quebec French and European French are greater than those between American and British English but lesser than between High and Swiss German. That is you could quantify it. <br /><br />And remember, my good Anglos, our expressions, accents and many of the words proper to Quebec French all come from the French themselves. Even the word ''blonde'' comes from an old French song "Auprès de ma blonde". At the time of colonization, most of the French settlers didn't speak French at all but many of the regional languages and dialects spoken throughout France at the time and so they adopted the Royal French variant of Paris as a common ground for language, mixed and coloured with their own regional flavours that eventually merged to form Quebec French. Then English has to come and screw it all up, of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-62741290043365303042010-11-03T19:12:20.165-04:002010-11-03T19:12:20.165-04:00@Anglo Montrealer
Dites-moi,comment faites-vous p...@Anglo Montrealer<br /><br />Dites-moi,comment faites-vous pour vivre convenablement a Montréal?Tout est en Français et vous devez maîtriser cette langue pour travailler.<br /><br />Européen qui s'intérroge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-89513033534956672872010-11-03T15:01:52.934-04:002010-11-03T15:01:52.934-04:00So the fact that some Quebec SITCOMS (slang/colloq...So the fact that some Quebec SITCOMS (slang/colloquial language is spoken in sitcoms by the way, NOT standard/more neutral language) is your only example to call Quebec French improper? Good Lord...<br /><br />Actually, Quebec sitcoms need to be subtitled because the French just willingly and arrogantly turn a deaf ear to any foreign accent. They are just that chauvinistic. Second reason is: European French has been reduced (through massive Frenchization campaigns by the French govt. in the late 19th and early 20th century - because before then, my dear friends, not even half of the French actually spoke French) to this monotonous variant, devoid of any vocalic diversity that contains far less vowel sounds than Quebec French, therefore making our dear ol' Frenchies one of the most linguistically handicaped people in the world.<br /><br />The French are unable to get rid of their accent in any foreign language, whether it be Russian or Chinese, because they can't mentally conceive nor produce any other sounds but their own. As for Quebecers, they are the only Francophone people in the world to be able to speak German without an accent (a fact widely known and accepted among academic circles in Germany, before you want to argue with me), FOR EXAMPLE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-21464074770652632262010-11-03T13:47:17.990-04:002010-11-03T13:47:17.990-04:00@ adski: Yes, I realize it's subjective. I jus...@ adski: Yes, I realize it's subjective. I just wanted to hear other opinions.<br /><br />@ anon: Interesting video, I do see the point you are trying to make. As to my husband, he's not interested in talking about languages.Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03155231576304534708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-30167550080109844912010-11-03T13:21:18.486-04:002010-11-03T13:21:18.486-04:00"Je veux simplement savoir si la difference e..."Je veux simplement savoir si la difference entre le francais de France et le francais du Quebec est plus grande que la difference entre l'anglais britannique et l'anglais americain..."<br /><br />Votre mari est Québécois,non? Alors il est le mieux placé pour résoudre vos problèmes de langue.<br />Vous pouvez toujours regarder ceci en attendant votre mari.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dABo_DCIdpM&feature=player_embeddedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-72775074348295487652010-11-03T13:10:31.877-04:002010-11-03T13:10:31.877-04:00"No provincial legislature can override secti..."No provincial legislature can override section 133 of the BNA Constitution."<br /><br />Oui,la loi 101.Ouch!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-66257778755329188622010-11-03T12:38:02.193-04:002010-11-03T12:38:02.193-04:00Diana, since it’s subjective, it’s hard to quantif...Diana, since it’s subjective, it’s hard to quantify. To me, both are <i>obviously</i> different. To the point that leaves no doubt.<br /><br />I’m not sure why Disney would put out a Quebecois French version of a song. It makes absolutely no sense. Maybe it has to do with the fact that British singers always sound American in their songs, so the British accent is somehow lost in songs and therefore there is no point of putting out two versions in English, while it can be done in French.<br /><br />But it nonetheless sounds like a waste of time, money, and resources to create a song for a market of 7 million who wouldn’t have a problem understanding the French-French version. Maybe Disney has money to burn and plenty of time to waste.adskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196014962059056067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-12607125717507368172010-11-03T12:10:12.370-04:002010-11-03T12:10:12.370-04:00"La raison est que nous sommes une société di..."La raison est que nous sommes une société distincte.Pas supérieure mais bien distincte."<br />No you idiot, it's because Quebec French is inaudible gibberish to French speakers from France. You Nazis always manage to turn ANYTHING into a sovereignty debate. That comment kinda made me laugh.<br /><br />@Anon:7:50 AM<br />"Comment se fait-il que ces immigrés ne savaient pas que la langue officielle du Québec est le Français?"<br />Because it isn't. No provincial legislature can override section 133 of the BNA Constitution.Anglo Montrealernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-16313514654854977702010-11-03T11:55:25.396-04:002010-11-03T11:55:25.396-04:00anon:
Je n'ai rien dit a propos de votre supe...anon:<br /><br />Je n'ai rien dit a propos de votre superiorite. Ni de votre culture distincte. <br /><br />Je veux simplement savoir si la difference entre le francais de France et le francais du Quebec est plus grande que la difference entre l'anglais britannique et l'anglais americain. Il me semble que oui, mais mon mari (qui est quebecois mais qui ne demeure pas au Quebec) dit non. <br /><br />Rien a voir avec la culture. Je parle seulement des differences entre les dialectes.Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03155231576304534708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-15157992873271286972010-11-03T11:44:50.101-04:002010-11-03T11:44:50.101-04:00"...remaking song for a population of 6 milli..."...remaking song for a population of 6 million Canadian French speakers..."<br /><br />La raison est que nous sommes une société distincte.Pas supérieure mais bien distincte.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-40078276413770444402010-11-03T10:27:24.396-04:002010-11-03T10:27:24.396-04:00@adski:
So to your ear the difference is equivale...@adski:<br /><br />So to your ear the difference is equivalent? That is what my husband says, as well. But it has always sounded to me (and I am still convinced!) as if the difference is greater between the two varieties of French. <br /><br />Disney has recorded separate versions of their songs for speakers of Canadian and European French, yet they have only one version for English. Why do you think they would go to all the trouble of remaking song for a population of 6 million Canadian French speakers, and not do the same for British English?Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03155231576304534708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-44257957411076324432010-11-03T10:04:15.746-04:002010-11-03T10:04:15.746-04:00Diana, the difference between French-French and Qu...Diana, the difference between French-French and Quebec French is as obvious as between British English and American English.<br /><br />French-French is softer than Quebec French and may come off as sophisticated and even pretentious to North Americans accustomed to Quebec French. To some of us, French-French may even come off as gay.<br /><br />I guess we can apply a similar distinction to British vs. American English.adskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196014962059056067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-20399170300451935802010-11-03T09:47:40.335-04:002010-11-03T09:47:40.335-04:00Wondering who can tell me if you believe Quebecois...Wondering who can tell me if you believe Quebecois French is more different from French-French than American English is from British English...<br /><br />Because it seems to me that it is more different. I lived in Quebec before with my French Canadian husband, though he thinks the difference is about the same.Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03155231576304534708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-10902996273458044002010-11-03T08:54:45.359-04:002010-11-03T08:54:45.359-04:00Anonymous at 18:32:
"Yes Troy...except that ...Anonymous at 18:32:<br /><br />"Yes Troy...except that you are *on* the bus and *on* the metro with your son...not *in*, so much for being an Anglophone."<br /><br />Ha! Now I got you! You do not even know the difference between 'in' and 'on', do you?<br /><br />'On the bus' denotes the act of riding the bus while 'in the bus' shows that the event happens within the enclosure of the bus.<br /><br />However, the bigger question I think is for you to nitpick the grammar instead of the issue that I presented. Looking for a straw man, perhaps?Troynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-12726738096964501052010-11-03T07:50:12.648-04:002010-11-03T07:50:12.648-04:00"Move to a part of Canada that does not have ..."Move to a part of Canada that does not have bigotted sign laws and laws regarding language of education..."<br /><br />Pourquoi ne pas lui avoir expliquer tout ça avant qu'elle débarque ici avec sa famille?<br />Comment se fait-il que ces immigrés ne savaient pas que la langue officielle du Québec est le Français?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-42031939297299192262010-11-03T03:02:25.869-04:002010-11-03T03:02:25.869-04:00"Beaucoup d'émissions a radio-Can n'o..."Beaucoup d'émissions a radio-Can n'ont besoin d'aucune traduction a l'étranger et que nous-même avons parfois"<br /><br />Oui, tu as raison avec ca. Because the commentators on Radio Canada have excellent french.. not like the balance of the Quebecois...qui parle la joual. Hi hi.<br /><br />Je coire Mdm. Galipeu est tres chaude. Comment pensez vous avec ca. Bien sure elle parle le francais tres correcte et pas comme les ensembles en Quebec avec joual la la.<br /><br />Oh la la. ma chere dame Celine, j'adore elle pour son francais perfecte et pas de gens en quebec qui parle le joual. Ha ha ha<br /><br />Assez bien "fun" pour ce soire. Bonne nuit a tous.<br /><br />Regards, <br /><br />The Westerner ou should that be l'homme de le ouest. C'est votre choix.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-90412695776133994942010-11-03T01:45:54.787-04:002010-11-03T01:45:54.787-04:00"The accent is of course the main and possibl..."The accent is of course the main and possibly the most unsettling difference but anyone with enough goodwill can get used to it"<br /><br />Then why do you not speak it properly with proper accents...Je suis pas j'sus. Oui et pas OUEEE. Goodwill, speak the language properly. then I might understand. Pauvre petit homme du Quebec avec le accente Joual. Desole pour ma mauvais francais. He he.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-45576313801999380332010-11-03T01:38:59.377-04:002010-11-03T01:38:59.377-04:00"If I had been allowed to work, things may ha..."If I had been allowed to work, things may have been different. The patois comment was just out of spite - don't overanalyze it. My husband will be leaving a good job and we will have to sell our house."<br /><br />The best thing you could do right now is leave that backwater province with their narrow minds. Get out before the PQ take power as any value in your house shortly after will be severely eroded, after their impending victory. Move to a part of Canada that does not have bigotted sign laws and laws regarding language of education. If you do, you will experience short term pain for long term gain as many others now understand.<br /><br />Good luck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-90593328613174930652010-11-03T01:31:24.159-04:002010-11-03T01:31:24.159-04:00"French is spoken on all four continents, in ..."French is spoken on all four continents, in more countries that Spanish or Mandarin Chinese,....) You didn't answer the question I had asked. West Africa...northern Africa...economic powerhouses, yeah right. French is on the decline.<br /><br />Now answer the f'king question that I asked. Or is it you do not have an answer.<br /><br />"is the first official language of the Olympic Committee and the working language of a dozen international organizations."<br /><br />Really, where does english stand ? I would bet that there is more english spoken at olympic organizing events than french.<br /><br />"Standard Quebec French is not a patois, it is virtually the same as European French except for some differences in vocabulary and a few differences in spelling (mostly when it comes to accents on capital letters) or punctuation"<br /><br />Tsigidou. (:)) Is that why some Quebecois movies or sitcoms are subtitled in "proper french" when exported to France...so the french can understand your joual.<br /><br /><br />"So to call "our" French a patois is not only insulting (though forgivable), but more alarmingly ignorant."<br /><br />Yes, we forgive your Joual.. :) Je suis tres desole pour toi. hi hi<br /><br />Vous avez une bonne nuit..mon petit homme Quebecois avec le mauvais francais.. Votre langue est minimaliste et sera de rien. ...maintenaut...apprendez est practique le premiere langue dans le monde et quoi est la ? Bonne chance et sucez mon queue.<br /><br />Vous etes tres drole...Ha ha haAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-61894217349271591872010-11-02T20:57:35.795-04:002010-11-02T20:57:35.795-04:00From the immigrant:
Appreciated, but I have seen e...From the immigrant:<br />Appreciated, but I have seen enough of Quebec's ways in this lifetime. Having something forced upon me makes my brain shut off - I am rebel like that, obviously to my detriment, but that is life.<br /><br />I actually took the French courses (4 years in fact) while living outside Quebec when I was happy to try learning the language. I took one course upon arrival. And then I tried to find work. Learning the language through immersion was my goal. Contributing to society and to my family was another. <br /><br />The longer I went without work due to not being fluent in French, the more I learned of Quebec's ugly truth - greedy, corrupt and xenophobic. It's just not a place I want to live.<br /><br />If I had been allowed to work, things may have been different. The patois comment was just out of spite - don't overanalyze it. My husband will be leaving a good job and we will have to sell our house. I'm not happy with that. I would have learned to speak French just by interacting in a work situation. I already have a huge vocabulary and a general understanding of the grammar rules. But, I just can't be bothered with the games anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-17828687529201836162010-11-02T20:50:42.646-04:002010-11-02T20:50:42.646-04:00"...Compare that with North American English...."...Compare that with North American English..."<br /><br />Savez-vous combien il y a d'accents différents aux É.U ?Saviez-vous que que nous avions aussi un Français international?Beaucoup d'émissions a radio-Can n'ont besoin d'aucune traduction a l'étranger et que nous-même avons parfois du mal a saisir l'accent Suisse,Belge et même Français?J'imagine que le polonais international a les mêmes contraintes...au fait,existe-t-il un polonais international?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-44361482782808404802010-11-02T20:33:19.620-04:002010-11-02T20:33:19.620-04:00Anon 6:32PM, 7:31PM
You do realize that Quebecois...Anon 6:32PM, 7:31PM<br /><br />You do realize that Quebecois shows and movies are routinely subtitled on French and Belgian networks (I assume it's the same on Swiss channels). Why do you think that is?<br /><br />This summer I was in Amsterdam, where I caught a subtitled Quebec show on TV5Monde. It starred Marc Labreche, one of the main Quebec television personalities, which didn't spare the show from close captions: http://adski77.blogspot.com/2010/07/tv5monde-subtitles-quebec-french.html<br /><br />Compare that with North American English, which you won’t find subtitled in Britain or in any other Anglo country. American English has become the most recognizable form of English in the world, while American French has descended into the least recognizable form of French.adskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196014962059056067noreply@blogger.com