tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post2811787669695790419..comments2024-02-17T03:22:53.951-05:00Comments on No Dogs or Anglophones: Bill 101...and the Slippery Slope to "Poutineism'Editorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05699783315783642466noreply@blogger.comBlogger206125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-8213160232057570442012-02-23T21:22:22.401-05:002012-02-23T21:22:22.401-05:00@Anon 03:16
" All I see is that the locals (Q...@Anon 03:16<br />" All I see is that the locals (Quebeckers) aren't assholes for insisting immigrants learn french"<br /><br />I find it odd that you are addressing a statement that was never made,this is improper way of argumentation,you could win the debate emotionally but never intellectually ;no one said that the Quebecers are assholes for asking immigrants to study in Francophone schools rather than Anglophone school;the law in itself is discriminatory.<br /><br />You could argue that this is positive discrimination in favor of Anglophones, but not negative discrimination against the immigrants,in the sense that it's not extending the services of the government to include immigrants with anglophones for some obvious reasons.<br /><br />I would have hoped that the government will try to understand why would an immigrant ,living in a province where the Francophones constitute 80 % of the population, send his\her child/ren to an English school,but if the government is content with treating the symptom rather than the illness (for lack of better word) then let it be.<br /><br />Parents,when choosing the school will always think of what would be the best for the child,in a situation where both options are available,you would understand that no one would like to loose the right to choose.<br /><br />If the only reason for the schooling part of the law,is making sure that the child of an immigrant will speak french,then I am sure that there are many other ways to reach that goal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-33107846200668546022012-02-23T21:01:02.616-05:002012-02-23T21:01:02.616-05:00"Note that Quebec sends more than 40 billions..."Note that Quebec sends more than 40 billions yearly to Ottawa."<br /><br />I had no idea JF Lisee contributes to this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-59787644081932755082012-02-23T19:23:26.442-05:002012-02-23T19:23:26.442-05:00"Note that Quebec sends more than 40 billions..."Note that Quebec sends more than 40 billions yearly to Ottawa."<br /><br />I had no idea JF Lisee posts on this blog too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-37807658415283617772012-02-23T19:05:59.956-05:002012-02-23T19:05:59.956-05:00At least we can live in french in the few decades ...At least we can live in french in the few decades still left to us?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-36693811537906436932012-02-23T18:31:24.871-05:002012-02-23T18:31:24.871-05:00Personellement j'aimes bien plusieurs groupes ...Personellement j'aimes bien plusieurs groupes Québecois comme Mes Aieux ou Les Cowboys Fringants, et j'ai adoré plusieurs films québecois comme "La Grande Séduction".<br /><br />En fait, un jour un collègue m'accoste. Il me dit qu'il a vu "La Grande Séduction", avec sous-titres en englais bien sûr, et qu'il a adoré. Ce collègue est russe, et parles englais en langue seconde. Nous sommes en Alberta. Il y a fallu que je lui explique que ce n'étais pas un film européen, mais bien un film québecois.<br /><br />Au Canada hors-Québec, on ne respecte pas notre propre culture, sois Canadienne ou Québecoise. Si ça vient d'ici, c'est automatiquement de la merde. On est obligé de croire que ça vient d'ailleurs pour lui donner une chance. C'est vraiment pathétique.<br /><br />Nos films Canadiens font plus d'argent en Australie qu'au Canada. Les Australiens aprécient plus notre culture que nous-même, même si nous avons plus de population. Qu'est-ce qu'il faut de plus?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-17635335747403692782012-02-23T18:17:08.155-05:002012-02-23T18:17:08.155-05:00As for the OLA - it's a common misunderstandin...As for the OLA - it's a common misunderstanding to think the OLA forces billingualism. The OLA *recognises* the billingualism existing in this country, by providing federal services in both languages. Before the OLA, federal services were *not* offered in both languages, and the billingual nature of the country was ignored. Furthermore, the OLA adds a commitment that federal services *operate* billingually to reflect the billingual nature of its employees. Anything else has the service defer to the path of least resistance (i.e. just do everything in english, since anglophones can't be bothered to learn a second language but francophones are expected to learn english) and the billingual nature of the country is then ignored. <br /><br />Note that I mean billingual nature of the country by saying that there are significant numbers of both francophones and anglophones in this country, and not that everyone is billingual. Not everyone will *ever* be billingual, nor should they be unless they are so inclined. The nature of having a billingual federal service is precisely so that we can *remain* unilingual, either french or english. As things were previously, if you wanted federal services and were francophones you were often SOL, even if francophones represented (at that time) a third of the population.<br /><br />As I noted elsewhere, anglophones of this country tend to take services in their language for granted, and treat services to francophones as an "extra right" that is given either out of political expediency, pity, or PC bullshit. Interestingly, anglophones in Quebec do not have the same view on what services the (francophone) Province owes them. (For the reccord - I think the Province of Quebec should offer better services in English - but that's neither here nor there)<br /><br />The bill of rights and freedoms (section 23) added a right to minorities for education in their language. That way anglophones of Quebec get education in english, and francophones outside Quebec get education in french. Before that, that right was not guaranteed, and many locations with enough francophones to warrant schools did not receive them. I don't believe that this is part of the OLA, however, since the OLA is a federal law and education a provincial responsability.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-51727324619848396752012-02-23T18:16:37.808-05:002012-02-23T18:16:37.808-05:00@Anon 6:53
-I don't expect immigrants to live ...@Anon 6:53<br />-I don't expect immigrants to live in French. I don't care. All I see is that the locals (Quebeckers) aren't assholes for insisting immigrants learn french, and the best way to do that is to have them go to the french public schools. Americans aren't assholes for getting immigrants to go to english public schools, are they? Or Spaniards for having immigrants going to spanish public schools?<br />For the members of the minority language, there are english public schools available. The same is true of francophone inhabitants in the rest of Canada. Why do you not think this is a good compromise? If things were like in Switzerland or Belgium, anglophones in Quebec would be forced in french school and Acadians in the Maritimes would be forced in english schools, and I think all of us would suffer more from it.<br /><br />I disagree with many other provisions of Bill 101. That's neither here nor there - I was discussing schools, and how many think the rights anglophones have in Quebec regarding schools are different from the rights of other Canadians. While it is true of immigrants with english as a *mother language*, that is usually not what is expressed by people complaining about schools in Quebec. If you're going to argue something, at least argue it correctly. <br /><br />Note that I would be in favor of immigrants with english *as a mother language* to have access to education in english in Quebec, but that still leaves most immigrants in the dark, and I doubt that would satisfy the malcontents here.<br /><br />If you want to argue that Quebeckers are trying to force immigrants to live in french at home: I don't think they should, and I don't know what Quebeckers feel, one way or another. But it would not change my opinion on whether or not immigrants should attend french public schools.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-50070750388125885612012-02-23T17:53:58.971-05:002012-02-23T17:53:58.971-05:00The Quebec Partition :
1. I can't speak of oth...The Quebec Partition :<br />1. I can't speak of others, but I don't live on this blog. I answer when I can, and when I am following it at all.<br /><br />2. If you really see people who think differently as "trolls", you are doing yourself an incredible disservice. One cannot grow and gain a better understanding of things by not considering opposing viewpoints. It's why I am on this blog, personally, even if I will disagree with what is said, I at least read it and understand it from the mouth of their own advocates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-50598258915886477082012-02-23T17:50:32.107-05:002012-02-23T17:50:32.107-05:00I see you regret the british' (as you acknowle...I see you regret the british' (as you acknowledge, ultimately partly self-interested) act of kindness in allowing a conquered culture to survive. Clearly we'd have been much better off if the population had been ruthlessly assimilated. But francophones who fear that the anglo-Canadians want to see them assimilated are paranoid, of course.<br /><br />I'm not convinced anglophones would have succeeded in out-growing the french population of Canada without the exodus of the loyalists following the war of independance. All those anglo-speakers would have spread westward (such as in the Louisiana territories following their purchase) istead of northwards, don't you think? It's warmer down there. I expect Canada to have less developped without having an international boundary on the 49th parallel artificially forcing population spread to follow an arbitrary line.<br /><br />Of course it is a matter of opinion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-28056865958339346172012-02-23T07:43:34.281-05:002012-02-23T07:43:34.281-05:00Seppie, you forgot to sign!Seppie, you forgot to sign!The Quebec Partitionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-7385143281380977862012-02-23T07:41:08.361-05:002012-02-23T07:41:08.361-05:00Very eloquently put... and as ever, as soon as you...Very eloquently put... and as ever, as soon as you rip their argument to shreds, the resident trolls are nowhere to be seen. Hello Seppie? Are you alright?The Quebec Partitionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-36670734070811052192012-02-23T07:38:03.138-05:002012-02-23T07:38:03.138-05:00I still have to see an example of Quebec culture t...I still have to see an example of Quebec culture that doesn't look like something from Alabama translated by Google.<br /><br />BANG!!!The Quebec Partitionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-52330430690273112922012-02-23T07:36:52.943-05:002012-02-23T07:36:52.943-05:00They are moving to Canada. Quebec just happens to...They are moving to Canada. Quebec just happens to be a part of it. English is one of the languages spoken in Canada.<br /><br />BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!The Quebec Partitionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-43204236099469793342012-02-23T00:32:48.837-05:002012-02-23T00:32:48.837-05:00@anon 1:31pm
“You can probably survive in every m...@anon 1:31pm<br /><br />“You can probably survive in every major city of this world in english; that doesen't mean the locals owe your kids education in english, and it doesen't mean that the considerate thing to do if you become a permanent resident is to learn the local language. That's all I'm trying to say.”<br /><br />The locals do NOT owe immigrants anything, but they should neither have the privilege to impose anything on immigrants, which is the point here. If I was an immigrant, I would ideally want the locals out of my way so I can live my life in peace. No help from them and no orders from them is better than some help followed by orders (known as “suggestions” or “guidelines”).<br /><br />Is it a considerate thing to learn the local language? Yes. The locals are within their rights to expect the immigrants to <i>learn</i> French, but the point is that they have no right to demand that immigrants <i>live</i> in French. Period.<br /><br /><br />“And yes, Montreal is a billingual city. It's an asset. It won't remain billingual, however, if only english is taught to it's new residents, no? Living in conditions where people can be functionally billingual and learn two languages is a priviledge that is not enjoyed by many on this continent, except for those living at the US/Mexico border.”<br /><br />Bilingualism occurring spontaneously is good. Bilingualism by way of central planning (the OLA) is not. Unlingualism occurring spontaneously is also good. Unilingualism by way of central planning (bill 101) is not.<br /><br />Second, who says that Montreal should be bilingual? What if one day all Montrealers decided they want to speak English and only English to each other? What if they decided to speak only French (and here I mean <i>decided</i>, not had the government impose it). I’m guessing that you would oppose the all English decision but favor the all French decision. I would favor either of the two, as long as it were the free will of the people.<br /><br />Third, what do you mean by “taught”? You seem to imply that Quebec teaches immigrants English, when it does no such thing. Quebec does not owe immigrants ESL lessons, I agree with you there, but the point is that it should also stay out of their way and not pressure/bully them in any way (not even in a mild way) if they proceeded to learn English outside governmental programs. Which is what some Quebeckers are doing, i.e. condemn those immigrants who pursue English instruction on their own.Anon 6:53AMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-23260760920500451792012-02-22T22:36:48.312-05:002012-02-22T22:36:48.312-05:00Brillant a fumé un Donut?Brillant a fumé un Donut?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-80275903458433342572012-02-22T22:09:39.193-05:002012-02-22T22:09:39.193-05:00Quebec has turned into the Belgium of North Americ...Quebec has turned into the Belgium of North America. I wish I could take credit for this but it was told to me by a work colleague of mine, a French national!MarcManCanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169855786169505035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-4023950117285125252012-02-22T21:53:23.903-05:002012-02-22T21:53:23.903-05:00and then making a reference to a dead FLQ terroris...and then making a reference to a dead FLQ terrorist's misguided nonsense from 1968 to support your opinion... priceless! hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaahhhhaahhhhhahhhhahahahahahhhhhaaaaaaa ooh stop it, it hurts!!The Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03505395670925907216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-65382217848785456402012-02-22T21:44:24.264-05:002012-02-22T21:44:24.264-05:00Below is a link to a story about french schools in...Below is a link to a story about french schools in Quebec.GDQ "let's destroy them when they are young and vulnerable",enjoy!<br /><br />http://lifeinmotion.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/a-story-about-racial-discrimination-in-quebec/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-22093625315409534012012-02-22T21:32:05.968-05:002012-02-22T21:32:05.968-05:00Imagine going through life with such a chip on you...Imagine going through life with such a chip on your shoulder... sucks to be you.The Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03505395670925907216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-25565870806053582222012-02-22T18:20:18.022-05:002012-02-22T18:20:18.022-05:00Note that Quebec sends more than 40 billions yearl...Note that Quebec sends more than 40 billions yearly to Ottawa. Some might say they're being bribed with their own money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-26786876326820374812012-02-22T18:17:43.954-05:002012-02-22T18:17:43.954-05:00I can't talk about every single point raised u...I can't talk about every single point raised up. I'm not sure if it's discriminatory or not. Is the extra right francophones in the ROC have to french education discriminatory against englishmen too?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-26535966029163374852012-02-22T18:14:09.930-05:002012-02-22T18:14:09.930-05:00@Anon 01:22 PM,
I will assume that you have conced...@Anon 01:22 PM,<br />I will assume that you have conceded that the law is discriminatory,but seems that this is normal in Quebec.<br /><br />I leave the last word to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-74488264799830118422012-02-22T17:35:27.240-05:002012-02-22T17:35:27.240-05:00Very true, adski. I think the francophone media ca...Very true, adski. I think the francophone media cares more about bringing you THEIR message, facts be damned. So, they will exaggerate how many people protest against the Canadiens coach for being unilingual (150 anti-anglos max vs 500 in some reports), they will always say that Quebec gets the short end of the stick, not acknowledging that Quebec gets 8 billion dollars from the rest of Canada and bring in Lisee to do some kind of economic gymnastics to show we're shortchanged, and they will bring out some "expert" such as Matthieu Bock Cote or whatever the hell his name is and Mario Beaulieu to tell you that the English are taking over Quebec and that francophones should be insecure.<br /><br />Let's get real! These "experts" are just people that the press throws a few dollars to, in order to confirm the message that they want to present to the viewing audience.<br /><br />Meanwhile, the silent majority of francophones approve of their children learning English and even approve of the recent presentation of different religions in class (74% in a La Presse online poll).<br /><br />But that type of information is typically buried. We only hear about the nutcases.Roger Rabbitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-44502250762842648762012-02-22T17:24:19.761-05:002012-02-22T17:24:19.761-05:00"yeah I would be really proud of my culture !..."yeah I would be really proud of my culture !"<br /><br />Oui nous en sommes fier parce que c'est la nôtre pas celle du voisin amarrricain.<br /><br />Et comme l'a écrit mon ami Seppie plus haut...BANG!!!101 ou 401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-53102567545081600762012-02-22T16:42:28.443-05:002012-02-22T16:42:28.443-05:00To think that I've been done wrong, would be t...To think that I've been done wrong, would be to think that there was someone doing the wrong doing. Ever since the 70's, the old barriers of discrimination have mostly been put down, and it's even an asset to be a francophone in today's Canada. <br />I understand assimilation is simply human nature, and people reacting to their environment in a rational way. I would say most francophones in Canada are attached to their language, but they don't breathe eat dream and shit french. If it means meeting the love of your life and raising english kids, many choose to raise english kids. If it means getting to a better job, many people go to a better job. One could just hope that the environment would make it easier to retain one's culture, and not feel like an immigrant in your own country.<br /><br />In Quebec, they have the raw numbers with which to preserve their language, and one might condemn their method, but I would not think them paranoid for being afraid of assimilation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com