tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post2687499067206745112..comments2024-02-17T03:22:53.951-05:00Comments on No Dogs or Anglophones: THE MYTH OF ANGLICIZATION - Part OneEditorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05699783315783642466noreply@blogger.comBlogger116125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-58496265092134078032014-09-05T10:35:08.978-04:002014-09-05T10:35:08.978-04:00The English language murdered French in other part...The English language murdered French in other parts of USA as well. French language was exterminated by English in Mississippi, Missouri, Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan as well as around Detroit. In New Orleans and St. Louis; French was eliminated by English language. Bill 22 was ineffective in stopping the English assault on French in Quebec, hence in 1977; a stricter law (Bill 101) was brought in by René Lévesque to insulate French culture and language from the overbearing influence of English and Anglophones. If this bill would not have been brought in, then today French language would have become history in Canada. It is already declining because of immigrants who readily learn English, but not French. Without complete secession of Quebec, I don't think French language will survive in the future.Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08827904807757777680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-25666065460196025762014-09-05T10:17:30.800-04:002014-09-05T10:17:30.800-04:00I am not a Canadian. I am a multilingual Bharatiya...I am not a Canadian. I am a multilingual Bharatiya (Indian). I can speak, read and write Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Sanskrit and English fluently. I have done a lot of research on English-French divide in Canada. I wholeheartedly support independence of Quebec from Canada. Contrary to what is suggested by the author here, the fears of French people in Quebec about getting Anglicized is genuine and not exaggerated. Let's look at some hard facts on the "linguicidal record" of English language. English was once only a language restricted only in England. After Britain was formed, the English speakers systematically murdered the Irish language. Scottish and Welsh were murdered afterwards by English. English came to American continent and like Spanish killed all the indigenous languages of the continent subsequently. English has systematically weakened Afrikaans in South Africa. When English language came to Australia, it killed all the indigenous languages. In New Zealand, the English language launched a brutal assault on Maori language. In Louisiana, USA, the French people were Anglicized by the English speaking majority. In Southern USA, the Hispanics are getting Anglicized rapidly. In Malta, English has murdered both Italian and Maltese simultaneously. In Philippines, Spanish language has been replaced by English. In Singapore, Chinese, Malaya and Tamil are gradually becoming extinct because of English since 1965. In my country, English has launched an all out war against 22 scheduled languages. My age mates after receiving English medium education, have largely become Anglicized. Many of them cannot speak their mother tongues properly and use an enormous amount of English words while communicating. The Vernacular Press in my country is battling hard against English particularly in urban metropolis of Bharat. Hence English has virtually killed or is in the process of killing and replacing every other language in this world. The only exception is Israel where stringent laws supporting Hebrew have reduced the expanding capacity of English. Record shows English cannot co-exist with any other language without eliminating it. The entire USA (318 million) and English majority Canada (35 million) have an overbearing influence of Franco-Canadians of Quebec (5 million). Hence their "siege mentality" is perfectly justified. They don't want their French language to die out because of English. They are the last "non-English" speakers of North American continent. Fortunately most Latin American countries have acrimonious relations with USA, hence their chances of rescuing Spanish and Portuguese from the onslaught of English is fairly bright till now.Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08827904807757777680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-70295966891684277912012-03-13T20:40:14.912-04:002012-03-13T20:40:14.912-04:00Yes, they do, as well as any `foreign`sounding nam...Yes, they do, as well as any `foreign`sounding names, read up on the results from the http://www2.cdpdj.qc.ca/en/pages/default.aspxHugo Shebbearehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750114508331173556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-4713065956106294712012-03-05T11:10:33.784-05:002012-03-05T11:10:33.784-05:00...and it is likely going to be the case in the lo......and it is likely going to be the case in the long run...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-46094294489926241612012-03-03T20:10:47.677-05:002012-03-03T20:10:47.677-05:00Tony Kondacks wrote on Feb 27, 2012 04:16 PM:
&qu...Tony Kondacks wrote on Feb 27, 2012 04:16 PM:<br /><br />"Funny you say that, Anonymous.<br /><br />I am convinced that the fastest way for English to be recognized in Quebec is for it to become independent. Today, the prohibitions against English in Quebec costs it dearly: few anglos from the Sea of English of 350 million surrounding it are eager to come to Quebec to live, invest, or use their entrepreneurial or professional skills. And this sea of 350 million is an incredibly affluent and highly skilled pool. As a result of not getting their fair share of these anglos, Quebec suffers greatly economically. But it is camoflaged by things such as $8 billion a year in equalization payments, net positive transfer payments to Quebec, and number sweetheart deals for Quebec that are negotiated on its behalf in order to keep it within Canada.<br /><br />Once Quebec is independent, the powers that be will soon learn that the expected influx of francophones from Haiti, France, and Cameroon is not materializing and in order to attract its fair share of investors and professionals it must start to draw from the evil 350 million "Sea"...and to do so, they will have to eliminate Bill 101 and make it possible for these anglos to come and live in Quebec so that they can live, educate, invest, and interact with the government IN UNILINGUAL ENGLISH. Cause these anglos ain't gonna come because of our winters. And they ain't gonna learn French.<br /><br />Quebec independence is a future of more welcoming to English and unilingual anglos.<br /><br />It is within the Canadian context that Bill 101 thrives. Indeed, all of the parties in Canada's parliament support it.<br /><br />There's a reason why Stephane Dion said that "Bill 101 is a great Canadian law." He was half right."<br /><br />Pardon me if I beg to differ. <br /><br />It's been over 30 years since the Quiet Revolution and Law 101 took effect, and it's fairly obvious that the anti-English language policies adopted by Quebec have had an adverse effect on both the province of Quebec and what used to be Canada's biggest and most prosperous city. If this hasn't changed the minds of most Quebecois, I doubt that the circumstances you describe would change their minds either.<br /><br />Take a look at Japan. They are in demographic free-fall, and the obvious solution should be to open the immigration gates. But the Japanese are too wrapped up in the idea that the only REAL Japanese is someone who belongs to the Yamata race, and that all foreigners are bad, that they can't bring themselves to do this. I think an independent Quebec will take harsher measures against English. When tourism and foreign business slacks off, instead of making the province more English-friendly, they will blame outsiders (including former countrymen) for not learning French. When more Quebecois have trouble finding jobs outside their country because for lack of English skills, they will blame other people for REQUIRING English. I don't know what else they might do, but I think it's safe that all the rights currently afforded to native-born English-speakers from Canada will go out the window.<br /><br />If it's any consolation, I don't think Quebec is leaving Canada anytime soon. Most Quebecois, if not satisfied with the status quo know they need money from Ottawa to fund the services they use. If they believed that Quebec could--on her own--generate the revenues needed to be an independent country, you might have a successful independence referendum.Edward J. Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11925008506185290162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-40391990823905503512012-03-01T23:54:00.979-05:002012-03-01T23:54:00.979-05:00> If immigrants would integrate our society and...<b>> If immigrants would integrate our society and become, let’s say, 40% for independence and 60% against independence (should I say pro-dependence?), that would be much less of a problem.</b><br />What a pompous ass you are, Michel. With what gall do YOU get to set (or even comment on) the percentages and proportions whereby immigrants choose what's good for them? They're citizens just like you and me. Just because your ancestors stole this land from the Nativs first? I've got new for you, buddy, the immigrants will care even less about us and our petty "primacy" claims than you do about the English whose argument goes along the lines of "finders keepers".<br /><br /><b>> As immigrants become a larger part of our society, francos slowly lose the ability the choose for themselves.</b><br />That's what we get for losing in 1759. I keep saying how damaging it is (to Quebec!) to keep pretending to omit fact from our minds. The sooner we realize we exist within a framework we can't control, the sooner we'll come to terms with how artificial and illusory most political control is anyway.<br /><br /><b>> And independence is about the ability to decide for yourself.</b><br />See that last sentence I wrote above.<br /><br /><b>> In Québec the problem might be more acute because, in Québec, two governments and two national visions compete on the same territory.</b><br />Or perhaps, "In Quebec, this is exacerbated by the fact that the provincial government continues to ignore the realities of a system of shared sovereignty and continues to weave fantastical delusions of its own grandeur".<br /><br /><b>> The issue of immigration has also to be seen in the context of two nations struggling for preponderance</b><br />The Chinese are coming. Look busy.<br /><br /><b>> Would Québec be independent and would we have full ability to decide for ourselves, the integration of immigrants would be much less problematic because the struggle between two nations would no longer be.</b><br />I think crazies in Quebec City counterbalanced by crazies in Ottawa makes sure that no one group of crazies gets to go overboard. I like that more than the fact even more than the idea that our grandchildren might speak both English and French someday.<br /><br />P.S. When writing in English, kindly spell it "Montreal" and "Quebec" without the accent aigu. Political differences aside, reading your stuff is sometimes like listening to Bernard Landry speaking English: he says both those words in a French accent (within an English sentence) and it makes him sound like the total stooge that he is. <br /><br />I'd like to have a smidgen more respect for you than I do for him, though.Apparatchiknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-18454994084694786502012-03-01T23:53:43.180-05:002012-03-01T23:53:43.180-05:00> But when comparing north american and europea...<b>> But when comparing north american and european contexts, one has to remember that no european country or language outweights every other countries or languages together by 10 to 1 and that 23 languages (if my memory is right) co-exist in Europe.</b><br /><br />Fair enough. Take a look at Asia. East Asia is dominated by Chinese (increasingly and administratively Mandarin), South Asia by India (increasingly and administratively Hindi). And as a whole, Asia has nearly 4 billion people, of which 2.5 billion come from one of these 2 countries. Anybody scared yet?<br /><br /><b>> Despite english being the new world lingua franca, italians work in italian, frenchmen work in french, germans work in german and so on. In Québec, there was a time when you had to work in english [...] </b><br />This is where your simplifications do you in. France is notorious for having murdered its own dialects in the name of a "standard" variant. German dialects are fast declining, as are traditional ones in Italy. Even though I advocate a universal exchange medium, I don't celebrate any of this; quite the opposite actually. Similarly, I read your comment about French-Canadians having to work in English and I yawn because it sounds like we were being raped when all we were doing was putting food on the table. Faut quand même pas exagérer.<br /><br /><b>> it is not about the existence of french, it is about its status.</b><br />That's even more insulting. I don't want a law or a government telling me how status-y my language is. See my comment about dialects above.<br /><br /><b>> But there is nevertheless a problem with immigration : immigrants tend to adopt (at least at first) the canadian vision of things.</b><br />I fail to see how that's a problem. Canada is a country. Shit-disturbers in Quebec keep force-feeding us this idea that we need to make two countries where now there's only one using equally creative emotional and often irrational appeals to immigrants who don't give a flying fuck about our complexes as the descendents of defeated colonists.Apparatchiknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-45247125291425166262012-03-01T23:12:26.955-05:002012-03-01T23:12:26.955-05:00> I'm trying to understand as an outsider.
...<b>> I'm trying to understand as an outsider.</b><br />Fair enough; it's hard enough to make any sense of it as a (somewhat nihilistic) insider.<br /><br /><b>> To me it certainly looks like cause ---> effect. E.g. Bill 101 ----> Bilingual anglos in Quebec, O.L.A. ----> Bilingual anglos in New Brunswick.</b><br />Don't you find your own conclusion about Federal legislation mandating <i>equality</i> was supposedly necessary in New Brunswick but Provincial legislation providing for <i>near-unilingualism</i> was supposedly necessary in Quebec?<br /><br /><b>> do you think that Quebec could have convinced its anglos to learn how to speak to the majority of the population they were imbedded in the absense of any change whatsoever?</b><br />That all depends on whether the Quiet Revolution (and indeed "maitre chez nous" itself) was fundamentally about dispossessing the powerful anglos of the role any successful conqueror ought to reasonably expect to play in the territory he has acquired, or whether it was simply a movement to get French-Canadians out of the illiterate deprivation that had until then been our birthright. In other words, empty half that glass to fill this one halfway. I have written enough in previous posts on what parts of that period I believe were necessary and which elements caused the revolution to go off the rails.<br /><br />When it comes to anthropology, I'm a strong proponent of laissez-faire. If the minority Anglo-Quebecers realized that there were some benefit to communicating with their francophone neighbors, they'd have to pick up French, no holds barred. Similarly, as French-Canadians, we would have to weigh whether our perpetual cocoon might not be in some regards holding us back.<br /><br /><b>> What was in the process of changing in your grandparent's circles long before 101, 22 and 63?</b><br /><br />To sum it up: the pragmatic realization that they couldn't continue being cloistered the way their ancestors were. And I'm glad they realized it between the Great Depression and the Quiet Revolution -- almost a generation before Lesage, Pearson, Trudeau, Lévesque, et al. This probably isn't all that ironic or shocking when you consider that many in that generation were already bilingual. <br /><br />It's not out of simple-minded spite that I look upon both Quebec and Canadian nationalism with scornful derision. Rather, it's because both contain more creative hypocrisy than I'm willing to appropriate as the descendent of French, English, and "Other" arrivals to this country.Apparatchiknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-85817780739042299732012-03-01T22:47:38.671-05:002012-03-01T22:47:38.671-05:00> note that I'm against laws like 101 regar...<b>> note that I'm against laws like 101 regardless of whether they work or not.</b><br /><b>> if you implement something controversial, something that raises ethical objections, them at least make damn sure it produces a desired effect.</b><br /><br />I don't know that I necessarily like where you're going with that. Laws, fortunately, are as fallible as the humans who write and advocate them. Laws much more vindictive than our Holy Charter have come and gone. Imagine what the world would be like if all of those laws, decrees, or policies had (entirely) succeeded.Apparatchiknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-60483223428158656092012-03-01T17:57:56.238-05:002012-03-01T17:57:56.238-05:00Tony, do you know for a fact that anglos apply and...Tony, do you know for a fact that anglos apply and get rejected from working in the public service? I woudn't be surprised if anglos weren't interested in working for the government given their consensus view on bill 101 and the state of the government in general. I'm not convinced that all the CVs starting with "John", "Smith", "Edward" are systematically fed to the shredder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-32268697616912156682012-03-01T17:16:03.462-05:002012-03-01T17:16:03.462-05:00OQLF says to me:
"Tony est un 'real cana...OQLF says to me:<br /><br />"Tony est un 'real canadian' car toutes ses références sont empruntées aux amerlocs.<br />Un petit calumet avec ça mon ami?"<br /><br />I proudly use analogies and metaphors from the American pop culture in which I have been inundated with since birth. I make no apologies for it. And they are certainly NOT Canadian Content references which I reject without hesitation.<br /><br />But here's one that is, perhaps, more pur laine quebecois and more to your liking:<br /><br />"Mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est xenophobie."Tony Kondakshttp://www.whycanadamustend.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-89730662921643273412012-03-01T13:38:13.325-05:002012-03-01T13:38:13.325-05:00Unfortunately it is his mother tongue, which is re...Unfortunately it is his mother tongue, which is really sad. He's a raving separatist fanatic.Anonymous2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-41267458418896562152012-03-01T09:37:04.829-05:002012-03-01T09:37:04.829-05:00I'm not sure how you jump from "assimilat...I'm not sure how you jump from "assimilation makes me sad" to "assimilation must be stopped". People live and die, nations live and die, languages live and die. It's a fact of life: surely you wouldn't want every person on earth to become immortal and live until the Sun fries the earth, nor would you want to bring back the Mongol Empire or the Aramaic language. Sadness at this state of affairs is understandable, justified, even. But that doesn't make it right to intervene on the decisions taken by individual people of their own volition.<br /><br />On a separate note, there always seems to be this misunderstanding among those people who perceive themselves as "victims" that "equal rights" means: "greater rights" for themselves and "smaller rights" for the others. This is convenient because, by phrasing it this way, there is no boundary to how much one's right can be increased, nor to how much someone else's rights can be reduced, as you no longer need to check whether "equality" has been achieved, so you don't need to stop asking for more. So you go from establishing the right of people to choose in which language to communicate (a perfectly fair thing to do) to pigeonholing them into one or the other language "box" and forcing them to stay there, even to the point of saying that one "box" is more important than the other. That makes ME sad!<br /><br /><i>But uncoerced doesn't necessarily mean voluntary.</i><br /><br />No, it does: it really does. Even if you mean that the choice is forced on you by the fact that by choosing language A you have to give up on certain things and by choosing language B you have to give up on others, it still is a free choice: what it highlights is where your priorities REALLY lie, and if speaking French or being part of the Francophone "nation" or "community" doesn't come as high as having a decent job or having a family and these things happen to come with the requirement to speak English, that's what you CHOOSE because these things matter more to you. What you are protesting against then is against the impossibility of having it all! As you say: people don't exist in a vacuum. That's a feature of life, not a drawback.The Quebec Partitionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-66573101972975511922012-03-01T09:10:06.097-05:002012-03-01T09:10:06.097-05:00It's not his mother tongue... I'm not enti...It's not his mother tongue... I'm not entirely sure he could even speak the language: Google Translate is as much his friend as it is mine as far as French is concerned, hence the very short posts and the complete lack of arguments...The Quebec Partitionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-77428369880536882292012-03-01T09:07:37.727-05:002012-03-01T09:07:37.727-05:00I speak for myself, and I can't stand the Ital...I speak for myself, and I can't stand the Italian keyboard: when you know the shortcuts for all the special characters, why would you want to move the punctuation marks around just to accommodate them? <br /><br />Also, adski pointed out that he was using his iPhone, so I reckon he had the spell-checker set to English, given that his post was in English with the odd French name thrown in... not really a matter worth dwelling on!The Quebec Partitionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-55682323497182112082012-02-29T20:23:48.162-05:002012-02-29T20:23:48.162-05:00Anonymous wrote:
"Affirmative action would o...Anonymous wrote:<br /><br />"Affirmative action would only work if you were advocating the hiring of ethnic francophones."<br /><br />Yes, I think you're technically correct. But I was referring to the reasoning that many people hold as to why Bill 101's human rights violations are allowed. And many people hold to the idea that it is a form of affirmative action: the righting of alleged past wrongs by giving advantages to one particular identifiable group (ie, francophones).<br /><br />You further writes:<br /><br />"Instead, jobs ask for the linguistic skill of being able to speak french. Bilingual anglos can and do get them."<br /><br />Uh, not in the provincial civil service they don't.<br /><br />Less than 1% of anglos get the cushy civil service jobs provincially...and this figure hasn't changed much in the last 35 years. The figure is a somewhat higher for allophones. Either way, the approximately 20% of Quebec's population that is non-francophone is NOT reflected in the makeup of Quebec's civil service.<br /><br />And we all know the reason for this.Tony Kondakshttp://www.whycanadamustend.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-32626318163460782542012-02-29T20:16:55.144-05:002012-02-29T20:16:55.144-05:00@Anonymous: The only place "nation" is u...@Anonymous: The only place "nation" is used in the sense that you want it used is in Quebec by francophones. No where else in Canada is it used that way except perhaps on the Order Paper on Parliament Hill where that silly resolution made an appearance about 5 years ago...and today I suspect that with the new crop of MPs coming in to Parliament from the last election many of them are not yet familiar with the politically correct version to be using it.<br /><br />As for the First Nations: there is MUCH more legal and actual basis for claiming that their communities constitute nations with the nation of Canada because the special rights and privileges that accrue to those with Indian status enjoy them only on those territories designated as reserves. Once an Indian status individual moves off a reserve and onto non-reserve land in Canada, he can no longer enjoy benefits such as not paying taxes.<br /><br />Not the case in Quebec where everyone is SUPPOSED to enjoy equality...unless of course we take Bill 101 in to account. Refer to the language of education provisions of Bill 101 which mete out rights to people using the same procedure as the one that determines Indian status: who your parents are and what their classification is. But, of course, you don't want to go down THAT road because, you see, the Indian Act has been deemed in the courts in Canada as a race law.<br /><br />And then you'd have to admit that the language of education provisions may also, by implication, be a race law, too.Tony Kondakshttp://www.whycanadamustend.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-22999490418453908872012-02-29T19:03:41.329-05:002012-02-29T19:03:41.329-05:00Words change in colloquial meaning over time, that...Words change in colloquial meaning over time, that is true. But the word Nation is already used this way in Canada, and in other places. Take for instance the reserves - are the First Nations understood to be 100% autonomous states by 99% of Anglo Canadians?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-10653962536316331832012-02-29T18:59:15.181-05:002012-02-29T18:59:15.181-05:00Keep reading. Hopefully you will see the connectio...Keep reading. Hopefully you will see the connection.Anonymous2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-88287240969672135032012-02-29T17:33:55.134-05:002012-02-29T17:33:55.134-05:00You can have all the language laws you want, if fr...You can have all the language laws you want, if francophones don't have kids and the immigrants don't assimilate, there is no future.Suzannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15038275826830875246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-10346770601785222692012-02-29T17:28:05.025-05:002012-02-29T17:28:05.025-05:00I'm not upset at disagreement or debate, but I...I'm not upset at disagreement or debate, but I hate the fact that people choose "anonymous". Is it too much to ask to adopt a moniker so we don't call you "hey you"?Suzannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15038275826830875246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-60967383492693364852012-02-29T17:07:04.685-05:002012-02-29T17:07:04.685-05:00Anonymous:I am certainly aware of the sleight-of-h...Anonymous:I am certainly aware of the sleight-of-hand definition that Stephen Harper and his infamous “Quebec people contitute a nation within Canada” means。But that isn't the main or commonly understood definition in English,or how it is understood by -- and I'm not exhagerrating here -- virtually 99% of anglos in or out of Canada。<br /><br />dictionary.com lists four definitions under “nation”。Dictionary definitions are listed in priority。See the entry at the following link and please try to understand that YOUR definition is listed #4,at the end,and MY definition comprises #1 and #2:<br /><br />http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nationTony Kondakshttp://www.whycanadamustend.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-60378039552532747382012-02-29T15:58:23.350-05:002012-02-29T15:58:23.350-05:00Affirmative action would only work if you were adv...Affirmative action would only work if you were advocating the hiring of ethnic francophones.<br /><br />Instead, jobs ask for the linguistic skill of being able to speak french. Bilingual anglos can and do get them. <br /><br />Unless you're talking about the signs, in which case it has nothing to do with affirmative action per se.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-7981925442469135622012-02-29T14:36:40.341-05:002012-02-29T14:36:40.341-05:00@Apparatchik : I'm trying to understand as an ...@Apparatchik : I'm trying to understand as an outsider. To me it certainly looks like cause ---> effect. E.g. Bill 101 ----> Bilingual anglos in Quebec, O.L.A. ----> Bilingual anglos in New Brunswick.<br /><br />But feel free to enlighten me - do you think that Quebec could have convinced its anglos to learn how to speak to the majority of the population they were imbedded in the absense of any change whatsoever? I'm not convinced. <br /><br />What was in the process of changing in your grandparent's circles long before 101, 22 and 63?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7963035472241877292.post-26188445995072998672012-02-29T14:32:36.206-05:002012-02-29T14:32:36.206-05:00Myth 1
I agree that the vision of us being surrou...Myth 1<br /><br />I agree that the vision of us being surrounded by 350 millions of english speakers is simplistic, I find it simplistic from both french and english side. And someone does attack this myth : J. René Marcel Sauvé attacks this myth in Géopolitique et Avenir du Québec. According to him, we are not surrounded, our territory is peripheral and it is one of the major factors of our survival and of our lasting existence as a people. If interested, his book has interesting chapters on Norway, Sweden, Portugal, Danemark, Israël and South Africa.<br /><br />But when comparing north american and european contexts, one has to remember that no european country or language outweights every other countries or languages together by 10 to 1 and that 23 languages (if my memory is right) co-exist in Europe.<br /><br />Also that french, in the Québec context, competes with a language that is both its local competitor and the new world lingua franca is an interesting factor that makes our situation somehow unique.<br /><br />Few languages once in real danger of disappearance (or assimilation, folklorisation, marginalisation, whatever) have succeeded in gaining ground ; catalan, hebrew and french in Québec could be the very few to have succeeded. And to my knowledge, Québec could be the only society in the world where french openly competed with english and gained ground. One commenter rightfully noted that it did not happen by magic.<br /><br />Despite english being the new world lingua franca, italians work in italian, frenchmen work in french, germans work in german and so on. In Québec, there was a time when you had to work in english and french speakers were second last in terms of earnings. Language laws adressed this issue and turned things around. Then again, it did not happen by magic.<br /><br />Again, it is not about the existence of french, it is about its status.<br /><br />Myth 2<br /><br />Again, the issue is not the hypothetical disappearance of french. What we mean by louisianisation is a process through which french speakers become citizens of second class, a process through which french becomes a folkloric language and a language of marginalization.<br /><br />As I said before it is not about the existence of french, it is about its status.<br /><br />Myth 3<br /><br />True, immigration will not cause the disappearance of french. But there is nevertheless a problem with immigration : immigrants tend to adopt (at least at first) the canadian vision of things. If immigrants would integrate our society and become, let’s say, 40% for independence and 60% against independence (should I say pro-dependence?), that would be much less of a problem.<br /><br />As immigrants become a larger part of our society, francos slowly lose the ability the choose for themselves. (Again, we cannot escape the issue of the definition of «themselves».) And independence is about the ability to decide for yourself. And the abilityb to decide for yourself is not only an issue for independentists, it is also an issue for federalist nationalists (who are federalists who see things from a Québec perspective).<br /><br />Integration of immigrants is a challenge not only for Québec but for also the whole western world. In Québec the problem might be more acute because, in Québec, two governments and two national visions compete on the same territory. The issue of immigration has also to be seen in the context of two nations struggling for preponderance.<br /><br />Would Québec be independent and would we have full ability to decide for ourselves, the integration of immigrants would be much less problematic because the struggle between two nations would no longer be. <br />Integration would not automaticaly easy since it is a challenge everywhere in the western world, it would not be easy, but it would be easier.<br /><br />The challenge of immigration is not a threat to french, it is a threat to our ability to choose for ourselves.Michel Patricehttp://michelpatrice.wordpress.com/about/noreply@blogger.com