Thursday, August 15, 2013

Ignoring English.... a Disastrous choice for Young Quebecers

An argument recently raged in the comment section where an American family who visited Quebec was angry that English wasn't spoken to them.

True?...An urban myth?....dunno.

Let's not quibble over details and if it is not true, it could very well be.

On the surface it seems a bit outrageous that strangers come to your country and expect you to speak their language (yes, Canada is a French language country as well) and the moral outrage by unilingual Quebecers may be justified, but unfortunately, wrong-headed just the same.

Over the last twenty years or so, it is a fact that English has evolved into the lingua franca of the world. Wherever you go in the civilized world, you'll find somebody in the room who speaks English and for the hospitality industry, the political class and international business set, it is an imperative.

I'm a polyglot, and at ease in several languages. When I used to travel, it was with phrasebooks and I always made an effort to speak the local language,
Visiting Mexico often, where our company had a factory and where the locals, living in the hinterland, spoke no English, I took up Spanish and got by quite well, but alas have given up for practical reasons.

I remember one such trip to the beautiful boonie town of Zacatecas, where my wife remarked on how surprised she was that nobody spoke English, to which I remarked that she'd never been to Chicoutimi. Hmmm.

But this is twenty years later, I hope the Mexicans made some progress but I'm pretty sure that the
Saguenéens have not.

Now when I check into a hotel or eat in a foreign restaurant of a decent calibre, I actually expect service in English...

Arrogant.... I don't think so.

English is as necessary to a big city hotel or restaurant as clean linens or good food. Those that don't offer the service are suspect and lazy, so I wouldn't trust what I was being sold.

For francophone parents in Quebec who fail to ensure that their children learn English, it is akin to keeping them illiterate or without basic math skills, a dereliction of parental duty.

Quebec remains an oddball society, the only one that I can think of that has made public policy the persecution of all things English.
It's a clever campaign, where politicians and language militants profess encouragement for francophones to learn English, but actually hope they don't.
Through subtle and not so subtle attacks on all things English, the message is passed down rather successfully that those who don't learn English are just fine.

The Mario Beaulieus of Quebec are no better than the Ayatollahs who instruct to their flock that schooling is irrelevant to girls, who after all, are expected to stay home and make babies, and so, education an utter waste of time.
We hear this all the time, that English is unnecessary if a francophone sets a goal to become a barista in a Tim Horton's in Matane.
That is the nationalist version of reaching for the stars.

It reminds me of bygone days where school guidance councilors would regularly tell parents of poor students to send them to technical or secretarial school.
I thought that behaviour went out in the sixties, but apparently language militants in Quebec are of the same mindset.
"Don't bother learning English, it's too big an effort and since you're going nowhere in life, it's unnecessary."

Tell me you haven't heard the Quebecois version of that argument often enough.

And so a generation of children have been told by their government that learning a foreign language like English is nice but not entirely necessary.
Read the anglophobes on vigile.net who tell readers that it's more important to learn Spanish or Chinese and  one can understand the fantasy world of the anti-English militants.

Now to those sovereigntists who believe that the only answer is independence, the sad fact is that it will not make English less important, but rather more.

As the rest of Canaeda de-bilingualizes, it means the protection of French in a bilingual Canada will disappear.
Quebec will be all alone, the 7 million francophones facing off against 375 million instead of the 35 million who protect French officially.
Hitherto bilingual Canadian companies with head offices in Toronto will de bilingualize, a natural progression based on the new reality.
Some companies selling into Canada, who were forced to keep French on the label and on the instructions even if it didn't pay, will eliminate translation.
Many companies will continue with French if it pays, but those who believe that it always pays are dead wrong.

Today there is an issue wherein Toronto or Calgary based public companies making public offerings are not bothering to issue documents in French, because they don't see enough  interest or aren't interested in selling in Quebec under the rules of the AMT.
French language militants celebrated a great victory when the Quebec government ruled that the practice of making French summaries of English documents will no longer be tolerated and full translations will be required before companies can trade in Quebec.
The question remains whether this new rule will increase or decrease the amount of stock offerings in Quebec?
Those who believe the former are dreaming in technicolor.
It is like those who want to ban plastic water bottles, believing that everyone will alternatively switch to water fountains instead of bottles of soft drinks or juices.

Because of the protective bubble that Canada provides to the French language, francophones have come under the impression that there is an equivalency between languages, the need for anglophone Canadians to learn French, as necessary as francophones to learn English.
French language militants always boast that francophones are more bilingual than Anglophones, but fail to understand that the need for an Anglophone to speak French can in no way compare to a francophones's need to speak English.
It's like boasting that more girls use makeup than boys....there is no equivalency.
Sorry for the painful truth.....

The reality is that French is protected by all 35 million Canadians, like it or not.
Those who believe that Quebec stands alone protecting French are like the toddler whose training wheels are taken off her bicycle for the first time, and who pedals furiously and successfully, unaware that her father is running behind her with a firm hand holding the whole thing upright.

I want to share this tweet as an example of the arrogance of the ignorant, who believe the world revolves around French Quebec.


Pierre Trudel, a retired Quebec sports commentator took offence at Eugenie Bouchard for Tweeting to her followers in English only.

His missive is typical of the ignorance of those who live in the cloistered world of the unilingually French and denotes a not so subtle level of hatred directed at the English.

First, Mr. Trudel assumes or wishes that Ms. Bouchard would be a francophone, which she is not. He adds an accent 'egu' to her name because it fulfils his fantasy.

The product of a French/English family, Eugenie speaks both English and French, but is decidedly Anglophone, having attended school at the very upper class and English "The Study"  in Westmount.
Listening to her interviews in both French and English, it is clear that English and the English culture is her preference.
But still, at ease in both languages, (she has a French coach) she is the embodiment of the bilingual class of Quebecers. A fine testament to the young successful bilinguals of Quebec (be they English or French).

But read into Mr. Trudel's tweet and we see quite the frustration. He sarcastically mentions Westmount 'Kwibec,'  a pejorative that francophones use, to describe how Anglos pronounce Quebec.

Now on what level is an Anglophone Canadian, who lives in Quebec, but plays on the international world tennis tour (which operates in English,) obliged to tweet in French.
Is it not the height of entitlement of Francophone Quebecers to assume that she should?

Such is the reality of French language militants.
It is sad and destructive, the painful reason so few francophones are really bilingual.
Listening to politicians, police or industry spokesman on television and on the street, it is more than clear that the level of English comprehension is abysmally low.

Thank the government and the Mario Beaulieus for keeping Quebec francophones barefoot and stupid, after all, like the Afghani girls who don't need education, so too are Quebecers, who don't really need English.

And so the rate of real bilingualism of francophone Quebecers is pitiful, with the majority of those claiming to speak and understand English basing that rating largely on the ability to order breakfast in English.

How many can watch a Hollywood movie and fully understand and appreciate what is said?

Francophones reading this blog, and who are truly bilingual, know the truth.
To those who actually achieve real bilingualism, I salute you.
You've done so despite your government and society, which actually resents your success and views your bilingualism as some sort of treason.

Sad but true.....

67 comments:

  1. Lord Dorchester

    Good posting Editor. Since the 1960's in Quebec, English and the teaching of it to Francophones has become politicized and it shows. We do a global conference call daily at my company, in English with people from far off places like Germany, Hong Kong and São Paulo. When the managers in Montreal chime in its embarrassing how badly they speak compared to our guys in Hong Kong! The sad thing is if you talk to an older Francophone raised in Montreal, odds are they can teach you how to speak English, they speak it so well. Rene Levesque, Jacques Parizeau, Pierre Trudeau, Pierre Lalonde, they are well known examples of what I'm referring to. Did their mastery of English take anything away from them? Did it make them less French? I don't think so. The political class in Quebec, especially the Separatists like to remind immigrants to Quebec that all they need is French to succeed here. Once here, reality quickly sets in and they figure out that English is an essential tool to have if they hope to do well. I have childhood friends (with immigrant parents) that couldn't string a sentence in English together when we were kids that are managers now in Calgary and Toronto and LA. In the end, it's the unilingual Quebecois that will suffer as usual. Continually being passed over for job promotions by upstart trilingual immigrants or bilingual Anglos must be a bitter pill to swallow after a while. We're closing down English schools in Quebec like they are going out of style. These schools should be accessible to any parent that wants their kid to learn in English regardless of their bloodline. We paid for them after all.

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  2. Very good post. It is really sad how true it is.
    Actually, most of those who don't speak English, don't speak proper French neither.

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    1. Seigneur, tabarwit! Qu'est-ce que tsu dzit la là?

      When I was working on the bilingual line at my work, everytime I heard dat «la là» from Lac St-Jean or the Saguenay or Wakefield and even sometimes Montreal, I wanted to puke! I never learned crap like that from my teachers in French class. I had "real French" teachers the last seven years of my public schooling. Only one was Québécoise of the eight I had (one leaving mid-year as he was horribly harassed unjustifiably by students), but she did speak an impeccable French.

      These shit-for-brains leading the shit-for-brains has been going on about a half century now, so if they haven't learned any lessons, or choose to ignore the obvious, WTF? It's just not worth arguing with idiots because you'll be blue in the face when it's all said and done with nothing to show for it.

      Harper has made subtle signs he's de-bilingualizing. Maybe it's time we have a political party that has a blatant goal of de-bilingualizing and show all Canadians the costs involved are not anywhere nearly worth the benefits. Per Keith B's rants on YouTube, it's blatantly obvious Quebec doesn't care about bilingualism, they want all Canada French much like the First Nations want all Canada back in their possession.

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    2. It's well known that saguenay is an unprofitable region of Quebec. Full of "Chômeurs en Pickup". I sometime wish the alum works there would close. As they are ungrateful to Rio Tinto bringing work to them.

      They brag about bill 101. We in the big cities pay for them, so they can continue to live in their wonderland.

      They are afraid of english, and they don't want to change.

      In my definition, most people living there are Morons. Utter morons.

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  3. All true Editor - I still find it amazing the nerve some of these people have. I guess I was brought up with some type of manners and respect which many of the francophone bullies seem to be lacking. I would never tell someone what language to speak - it wouldn't even dawn on me to do so. I find that as ignorant as going into a Chinese food restaurant and hearing the cook talking to a waitress in Chinese and my interrupting them and telling them to speak English. There seems to be a whole new generation of francophones that feel it's OK to tell people what language to speak even when it's not directed at them.

    We are in for even bigger problems come Bill 14 which will make these bullies feel even more empowered. All the buzz on FB is about people leaving the province again - especially those that are only renting. They've had enough of this BS so more taxpayers are hitting the 401 which suit SR and his friends but they never give a second thought as to how we're to replace all this money that goes with them.

    The whole mess is bringing out a lot of anger such as Mr. Sauga who used to be a lot more mellow about these matters. They are creating hatred all over Canada and there is going to be a backlash in the coming year, that's for sure. But maybe this is what it will take for Harper to open his mouth on all this. Silence has not helped the matter one bit and, in fact, makes him look like a complete and utter incompetent leader of our country.

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    1. Cutie, I like to think that with age comes experience, i.e., becoming better at separating the cream from the crap. I never thought this "preservation" of the French language held water, but as time has gone by, it has presented itself as nothing more than a hatred for everything English, or everything not French (more the former than the latter).

      The Scottish who seek separation, like the vindictive Québécois «se souviennent»! They can't get over the fact they both were annihilated by the English in 1746 and 1759 respectively. I'm OK with their "remembering" what happened, I certainly don't want the holocaust to ever be forgotten considering that war cost over 37 million lives and very serious ethnic cleansing, but I am not of British descent, so leave me alone!

      The dickheads behind all that's going on these days have far more to lose than to gain by separation, but there are pigheaded, stupid people in the world so I guess it's either an annoyance we put up with, or cut the gangrene away. As far as Quebec goes, I've opted for the latter, and so has Howard Galganov. I think it's high time we educated the RoC what this gangrene is costing the rest of us and amputate the damaged limb.

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    2. Again Mr. Sauga I can't disagree with you. Just keep in mind there are millions of us that will be cut off with the damaged limb that have nothing to do with the disease itself. I don't blame you one bit but I'm going to try to save myself through all this as I'm sure you would if you were still living here. I also understand you are angry with the "silent" majority and so am I. I wish these chicken shits would start fighting back against their oppressors and again I do all I can to fight and get them motivated to take action. I notice more people are speaking out via FB and the various groups but they still seem to have a problem getting their acts together because a lot are so afraid to speak out. I don't know why - Christ, they have nothing left to lose! Anyway, too much fear at upsetting the apple cart or whatever the hell is wrong with them. A lot that are mobile are leaving again rather than raise up shit but they will be with you on speaking out against giving this racist province one more cent of federal money. They all seem to be in agreement with that and again, I don't blame them.

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    3. Cutie: I like to think I'm being a little more reasonable than cutting Quebec off entirely. They contribute to the federal tax system, so I'm fine with their getting back every dime in federal services that they put into the federal system, but not one dime more.

      In response to your line "I'm going to try to save myself through all this as I'm sure you would if you were still living here", the difference is I left Quebec just the way the Italian cruise ship captain abandoned leaving the passengers to their own devices. My family members who count most to me have either left or died. The difference between your necessity to stay and fight vs my having left the ship to sink is a horse of a different colour. Had I stayed behind, no doubt I'd likely be in the same boat as you and likely would have acted the same way that you are.

      My decision to leave took a full decade to implement. It indubitably was the right decision and I'm very glad I made it. I was only sixteen when I came to the decision. Bill 22 was all I needed to determine the direction Quebec was going to take, and every nightmarish scenario I envisioned back then was scoffed at by my parents and others of their generation. Too, they were planted when all this started and the government realized older folks had to be given the opportunity to die in their language, but all Quebec governments made it understood this would only be for a limited time.

      Had I gotten married in Quebec and had children there, my children would not get such accommodation. Right now, I should be part of that generation that is accommodated for, but the policy, under Charest yet, has become one of "speak to us in French or drop dead!"

      In addition, talking to Francophones has become unappetizing. They're rude, they're arrogant and obnoxious (not all callers, not even a majority, but it is and has been happening with increasing frequency), so who the hell needs them? Not I!


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  4. ...an American family who visited Quebec was angry that English wasn't spoken to them.

    And this is news... how? Typical Americans expect that English is spoken to them all over the world, even in major countries like France or Japan. Some of them think that speaking foreign language means speaking English slowly and loudly with hand gestures. If Quebecers get indignant, just get in the line.

    Do not believe me? Just watch The Amazing Race.

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    1. Well "The amazing Race" is not a fair example, but you're right how about in my living in asia for the past 2 years in SK and JP, the american community was far less likely to speak the language compared to the Canadians or Aussies. It's just a fact, you're right.
      But its true that Japanese are much more accomodating and if the guy knows english he will speak it to you. If he doesn't, he will try his best to communicate, and you will be treated well.

      The problem in Quebec these days is the latter, just many rude people who don't know english, and will make it very clear they don't want to speak it either. Tourism can handle poor english, but it CAN'T handle rudeness for speaking English.

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    2. There is a whole world of difference between those that can't speak French and those that refuse to speak French because of politics. Up until the election, most francophones who couldn't speak English were not rude about it and made an effort to be understood just as the anglophones that can't speak French. All that changed with the introduction of Bill 14 whereby the PQ made it obvious that it was justified to be rude, ignorant and violent toward everyone that does not speak French. Incidents of violence that have occurred against anglophones have brought not one word of recrimination from the mouths of any of the politicians - including those of the liberal party.

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  5. And you want to make a country out of THIS?

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  6. Speaking of tennis, I went to Genie Bouchard's website and found that it was fully in English. That is, she and her people do not have the intention to communicate in French. That is her choice, I guess, and no legislation can force her otherwise.

    Speaking of tennis again, what can we expect from Vigile.net. Yet another author takes offence that Montreal fans cheer for Canadian athletes. This time it is for Vasek Pospisil and Milos Raonic, who reach Rogers Cup semi-final.

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  7. Great piece.

    But Editor, you do realize that Bertrand Russel was a socialist thinker, a man born into British upper classes who gave up his privileges because as he said: "he didn't want anything to do with it".

    A great thinker without a doubt he was, but I was still (pleasantly) surprised to see you quote him.

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  8. I have a few comments on today's piece, but one more thing about yesterday's topic.

    Please look at the link below and confirm to me that this duplicitous clown who is came from the world of finance capitalism and is now heading back there is in fact wearing a red square. I just want to make sure I'm not seeing things. Thanks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X94HXWfyrrI&t=6m26s

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    1. Yep - he's wearing the red square and the film was directed and produced by the "students". They play these kids like a violin to get ahead and then live in the "English" world. The kids are stupid to say the least to follow these political leeches but they know everything when they are young do they not?

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    2. Speaking of those loser students, look at what happened to the loser who represented them:

      http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/08/16/quebec_lawyer_denis_poitras_pays_the_price_for_pro_bono_cases.html

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    3. "loser students"

      And yet just a couple of days ago, most people on this blog were defending the students, claiming that the police treated these terrorists in an unfair manner...

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    4. I was not one of the commentors defending students.

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  9. I have a French friend, her husband worked for a pharmaceutical company, he was told by the company if he wanted to keep his job he would had to move to Texas. My friend does not want to live in Texas, so her husband has found another job in Switzerland, in the German sector. I commented it is useful he speaks French if he is working in Switzerland, her response was the company operates in English.

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  10. I am actually encouraged by this. If we kick (French) Kaybec out, the racist francophones WILL have their own country (obviously with smaller borders than the province has now) and Canadians will be rid of the cancer that is Frenchification as well as keeping loyal Canadians in the country, and oh by the way saving TEN BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR in the process.

    Of course spokespeople like Beaulieu are the best argument and proponent for a CANADA WIDE referendum, which for most of us former residents of Canada's Most Racist Province, cannot happen soon enough.

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    1. The separation movement has about 30% support (according to Léger, so remove another 5% to be realistic).

      A better idea would be to look at the areas with enough population that consistently vote for the PQ, and create a special, isolated separatist zone (La Zone Séparatisse). This area would cover the Saguenay region, as well as the Gaspé region, but more importantly it would protect the St-Lawrence valley and resources in the north.

      This "separatist" zone would be entirely governed by the separatists, with no outside interference from Quebec or Canada whatsoever (no financial aid either). They could also let the catholic church run things, like back in the good old days..

      The separatists, with limited resources, could then pay for any needed services from Quebec / Canada.

      Separatists living outside the "Separatist Zone" would get to make a final choice: either move to the separatist zone and live out your life's dream, or accept the reality of the rest of the world. No more arguments, no more debates, problem solved.

      Win-win for everyone.

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    2. I love it - partition is the answer for all of us. Let them go their own way and put a final stamp on the whole movement. Let them run their own lives the way they want - as long as I'm not part of it that's fine.

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    3. "The separation movement has about 30% support (according to Léger, so remove another 5% to be realistic)."

      But this shouldn't be about what Quebeckers want. Because even if only 0.1% of them supported secession, how many would still support asymmetry in Canada-QC relations, Bill 101, more money from Ottawa, more RoC market shares, French language accommodation from coast to coast while in Quebec you Anglos are getting Bill 101 in return?

      I will not be joining the "let's kick Quebec out" crowd, but I think that Canada should consider a referendum on the removal of Quebec. I won't be ecstatic about it as I might end up on the Quebec side of the border afterwards, but on the other hand, enough is enough.

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    4. That's another reason to keep that extra 20B aside adski - for people that are stuck on the wrong side of the border following a vote on partition. We will need help to re-locate and to start over. Let the separatists worry about assisting those that are stuck in the new province and want to re-locate to the new separate area of quebec but without that extra 20B they pick up from the ROC. If the ROC have a referendum on kicking quebec out, that's when we need our own referendums here for the next major decision.

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    5. @exKaybecer :

      Partition will never happen. At least not during our lifetime, I just don't see it since the support of this idea is probably under 10%, maybe even less than 5%.

      Also, I don't know everything that goes into this "Frenchification" ideao, but if partition had to happen, Canada would have to maintain his bilingual status.

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    6. "the support of this idea is probably under 10%, maybe even less than 5%" - do you have a source, Guilaume?

      It would be interesting to see population-wide polls re: support towards partition of Quebec:

      a) with no referendum planned
      b) with a referendum in the near future

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    7. Obviously I don't have a source but since it's still an alternative opinion, I can't imagine the support for partition being high.

      Also, if it had to happen, the transition won't be as smooth as one would dream. Even if Anglos play a large role in its prestige, Montreal remains the cultural and economical center of French America.

      Partition would likely lead to more tension, and probably even to some violence. This alone is probably enough to ensure that a vast majority of Québécois would vote against partition.

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    8. Well Guilaume as I've said before, if you think that quebec can be taken out of Canada on a 50+1 vote, then there is for sure going to be violence considering that at least 50% will not want to be uprooted from the whole safety net of belonging to Canada for some pie in the sky dream of a bunch of politicians that can't balance their own checkbooks.

      The most democratic way to settle this is to vote by municipality or federal district and the decision as to who goes where comes from those referendums. Less people likely to riot going that way than trying to take a whole province out of Canada by one vote. There is bound to be violence in the streets when hundreds of thousands of people wake up the next morning with no jobs and a stock market that has made their portfolios worth next to nothing for the next 25-50 years. The economic impact of that happening is going to cause panic all over this province. And you dream also if you think there will not be more tension created by that than people making a decision as to where they want to live via their vote being recognized by the population in each area knowing their own area. I've said before that I'm damned is some farmer in Saguenay has any idea of our situation here in Gatineau when it comes to survival following a vote to leave Canada. This area has no farms, no lumber, no industry and is totally dependent on the Federal Government to live and thrive. There would likely be more problems in the Montreal area than in the Pontiac or the Outaouais. Partition is the only viable solution to most people getting what they want democratically.

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    9. "for people that are stuck on the wrong side of the border following a vote on partition."

      I wasn't referring to partition. Partition is another subject. If it happens, then good. If it does not happen, then it's still good if the following changes are in place: no more transfer payments, no more OLA, no more talk about the French language outside of Quebec (I don't mean speaking French by the francophone minority, I mean the politicization of language making us have to hear and talk about it), no more BQ in Ottawa, the topic of Quebec in Canadian media reduced to the level of coverage given to other small insignificant countries, etc...you catch my drift. Basically, Quebec and the issue of language (any language) out of sight, out of mind, out of view, out of here. Language(s) would be spoken, not spoken about. The religion of language would be no more.


      "if partition had to happen, Canada would have to maintain his bilingual status."

      You mean if Canada kept a few parts of Quebec which are overwhelmingly non-Franco, that would oblige the RoC to maintain bilingual status for like a 1% minority which would have no more ace up their sleeve anymore, (the ace being Quebec threats)? You're dreaming pal.

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    10. I never said that their would be no turbulence the other way around (after a winning referendum), but that's not the topic we are discussing now.

      Partition attached to a referendum wouldn't work. I mean it's only obvious that the PQ (or any other party in power) wouldn't use that strategy.

      Also a "partition alone" scenario would be a real pipe dream. All of sudden, a bunch of Anglos would want to separate themselves for Québec...how ironic would that be? I'm sure there will enough Francophones and Anglos who don't want more trouble in each district/municipality to vote against partition.

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    11. "Montreal remains the cultural and economical center of French America."

      A cultural and economical center of French America...which is also anglicising at "an alarming rate" and French-speakers are falling below 50% (that's according to the same people who boast of Montreal being the cultural and economical center of French America). Which means you have to revise your story. Any time you say that Montreal is a French metropolis of North America, you have to add a footnote in small print at the bottom of the page: "However, in large portions of the city people still prefer to use English".


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    12. "Also a "partition alone" scenario would be a real pipe dream."

      ...and yet it scares the crap out of you.

      Partition is a small issue for me though. The big issue is: what do we do to put an end to the cult of language, or at least contain it within the borders of Quebec and prevent it from spilling an inch into the RoC.

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    13. @Adski "You mean if Canada kept a few parts of Quebec which are overwhelmingly non-Franco, that would oblige the RoC to maintain bilingual status for like a 1% minority which would have no more ace up their sleeve anymore, (the ace being Quebec threats)? You're dreaming pal."

      GL : Canada without "french" Quebec has only a 1% French minority? I guess these Francos communities in Ontario and NB suddenly vanished since les Séparatistes left the ship. Also these overwhelmingly non-Franco areas are also overwhelmingly small so they'll likely need the help of some Francophones in order to win a partition vote. Again, why would any Francophone vote in favor of joining an unilingual Canada...

      @Adski : "Montreal remains the cultural and economical center of Frenotech America." A cultural and economical center of French America...which is also anglicising at "an alarming rate" and French-speakers are falling below 50% (that's according to the same people who boast of Montreal being the cultural and economical center of French America). Which means you have to revise your story. Any time you say that Montreal is a French metropolis of North America, you have to add a footnote in small print at the bottom of the page: "However, in large portions of the city people still prefer to use English".

      GL : I'm not a OQLF officier nor a PQ partisan so no need to throw all your frustrations at me. Whatever happens whether it's partition, a referendum or things just stays the same, Montreal remains an important symbol for French speakers throughout the province, it's simply a fact.

      @Adski : "Also a "partition alone" scenario would be a real pipe dream."

      ...and yet it scares the crap out of you.

      GL : I'm sorry Mister the psychologist but it doesn't. I was just exposing why it won't happen and thanks for skipping all my arguments.

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    14. @ GL,

      You seem frustrated. There's no need to use bold face type. We can all differentiate between your comments and Adski's.

      The proportion of Francophones in Canada outside Quebec is closer to 3 or 4 percent, but you can rest assured that bilingualism and the Official Languages Act will still be scrapped in the event of Quebec separation.

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    15. @Durham : "The proportion of Francophones in Canada outside Quebec is closer to 3 or 4 percent, but you can rest assured that bilingualism and the Official Languages Act will still be scrapped in the event of Quebec separation."

      Probably, I can't deny that this a possibility. Canada wouldn't look brilliant in the protection of minorities but I can't do anything about it. (If you think payback/revenge against Québec is the way to go it's your problem.)

      However, I'd like to go back to the case we're interested in which is partition. I'll reiterate what I've said earlier. No area in Quebec (even those populated by a larger proportion of Anglos) will vote in favor of leaving Québec to join a unilingual Canada.

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    16. "Partition attached to a referendum wouldn't work. I mean it's only obvious that the PQ (or any other party in power) wouldn't use that strategy."

      Well, it has happened before, and I think the Jura solution could apply in Qc as well.

      Delete
    17. G. Legare,

      However, I'd like to go back to the case we're interested in which is partition. I'll reiterate what I've said earlier. No area in Quebec (even those populated by a larger proportion of Anglos) will vote in favor of leaving Québec to join a unilingual Canada.

      You wrote a lot but you did not clearly explain your argument. If Quebec became independent and Canada had English as its sole official language, according to you, why would Westmount, Cote St-Luc, St-Leonard, St-Laurent and Kirkland not vote to separate from Quebec and rejoin Canada?

      Delete
    18. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    19. Because he’s simply talking through his hat, Troy. The plethora of confusion is astounding in this one, young Jedi.

      So the PQ doesn't support partition... you don't say? Well, blow me down with a feather! Partition is not in itself a desirable goal but rather a response to the incessant demands by that minority of perpetually aggrieved professional victims who don’t want any solution and will never be happy until they separate.

      With reference to the partition of Quebec, GL says:
      “I can't imagine the support for partition being high.” [*facepalm* same thing as with separation]
      “If partition had to happen, Canada would have to maintain his [sic] bilingual status.” [with no explanation provided why this should be the case, of course]
      “Also, if it had to happen, the transition won't [sic] be as smooth as one would dream.” [*double facepalm* again, same thing as with separation]
      “Montreal remains the cultural and economical [sic] center [sic] of French America.” [calling it “French America” makes it sound so much more dramatic than saying “Quebec”, even though we are talking about a population roughly the size of a city such as, say, Philadelphia or Houston, either of which have about the same population as French Quebec. The numbers could be bolstered slightly by adding all the RoC francophones that Quebec nationalists don’t care about and are quite prepared to throw under the bus, but this is something that they only selectively do whenever it is convenient for their argument]
      “No area in Quebec (even those populated by a larger proportion of Anglos) will vote in favor of leaving Québec [sic] to join a unilingual Canada.” [complete delusion here… of course they will! Wherever does he come up with these fantasies?!?]

      PS: @ P. Darwinopterus, what is the Jura solution?

      Delete
    20. @G.Legare - I never said that creating a new province from partition of quebec would be unilingual - I've always stated it would be a bilingual new province so that the federalist francophones would have a reason to remain within Canada with equal rights and freedoms as the anglophones such as in NB. As there are only 30-35% of francophones that wish to separate from Canada, I don't see why they would not vote to remain with the areas that want out of this blackmailing, rights restricted province to remain with us. It's funny how separatists always seem to want to forget things out of convenience rather than reason.

      @P.Darwinopterus- I think the Jura solution is great and I kept a copy of it from when it was brought up (not sure by whom) last year. I know it could work here also. Thank you for reminding us.

      Delete
    21. Cutie003 : A vote against the separation of Québec isn't necessarily a vote for partition. Federalists francophones are very attached to their province and a vast majority of them don’t want to see it being “broken into pieces”.

      R.S : I'd appreciate you not putting words into my mouth. Argue against what I've wrote not what I didn't write. Also, I have the right to express my views on partition alone and it doesn't have to constantly be linked to Quebec's sovereignty.

      Delete
    22. @Troy : First of all, to avoid any "backlash" due to my presumed sovereignist views, I have to confess that I don't see Québec's independence happening in a foreseeable future. The actual PQ government and its supporters might have killed the chances of a winning referendum for probably a few decades.

      So back to the topic, Troy, you are bringing a good point. If the eventuality of a winning referendum, it's entirely possible that some parts of Québec would ask to join to Canada. Whether or not a city/district/region has enough power/autonomy to ask for partition is left to been seen. I don't think anyone here could answer that question. I guess a committee of lawyers would probably have to examine this issue. Also, if this had to happen, Canada would probably have to maintain his bilingual status in order to lure places like Montréal, les Outaouais and the South Shore.

      However, a winning referendum wasn't included in Ex-Kay and QoTS' partition scenario. QoTS even said that support for sovereignty is very low so it's not an issue. Actually, we might be arguing on many fronts here. I was thinking of partition as something that was voted inside Québec and isn't related to a referendum on sovereignty. However, how can you make this work democratically? I don't think municipalities or regions can just start a referendum hoping that they wouldn't be apart of Quebec anymore. Even if this could be possible, wouldn't it be completely ironic to see some Anglo areas engage into a "separation" process? Also, as I said earlier I can't imagine the support for partition being high. It's still an alternative idea and there are no mainstream political parties supporting it.

      Now there is the "Kick Québec out of Canada" issue which I haven't commented on. I don't have a crystal ball but this also seems like an unlikely scenario to me. For Canada, to "kick out" Québec and retrace borders to its own advantage goes completely against what it has been trying to achieve, for decades, on an international and national level (unity from coast to coast). Also, this scenario would probably not bode well with the international community. Québec might not get infinite support from the international community, but this whole kick out Québec thing would likely hurt the relationships between Canada and a bunch of countries.

      So here we are back to the start ....What's the best scenario for partition? A winning referendum?! Isn't it ironic ... and maybe even delusional ... ?

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    23. G. Legare,

      The idea of partition has been in discussion almost as old as the idea of separation itself. The rationale is that since the idea of Quebec separation is such a polarizing issue in Quebec, in the event of Quebec independence those who are die-hard Canadians will vote to have their locales (borough, town, city, county, region) remain in Canada. That is the concept. Now we go back to your statement:

      So back to the topic, Troy, you are bringing a good point. If the eventuality of a winning referendum, it's entirely possible that some parts of Québec would ask to join to Canada. Whether or not a city/district/region has enough power/autonomy to ask for partition is left to been seen. I don't think anyone here could answer that question. I guess a committee of lawyers would probably have to examine this issue. Also, if this had to happen, Canada would probably have to maintain his bilingual status in order to lure places like Montréal, les Outaouais and the South Shore.

      My question to you is "why?" An independent Quebec is presumably French only. Why would Canada need to accommodate French to get non-French speakers out of Quebec? The examples I gave you above are all majority non-French.

      I agree with you that Quebec independence will not happen in our lifetime, the next 40 years in my case, I think. And so the partition idea is equally moot. However, I just see that there are plenty of holes in your logic and therefore I engage you in this exercise.

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    24. Troy - I don't agree. I think the above decisions have to take place long before another 40 years as we (all the federalists in quebec and the ROC) have had enough of the dance of in/out and raking everything they can from the ROC for as long as they can. This will have to come to a head long before 40 years; probably within the next 5 or so. Things cannot go on the way they are as the whole province is imploding and the ROC are extremely tired of all this complaining and blackmailing that the separatists insist in carrying on with no end in sight.

      Delete
    25. @G. Legare - You know the really sad part is your politicians are killing off your great financial powerhouse in Quebec with your own stupidity and you still think it's OK to do so. What is wrong with you people? I don't get it - you want to keep Montreal in quebec but don't want to let it thrive! Montreal will again be a great place if they can shed themselves of you people but you don't seem to think they are smart enough to vote to remain with Canada - ah but I disagree. I think they would vote to leave you in a minute and I'll bet they would and could do that following Clarity Act Rules. I think you underestimate their intelligence and will to become a powerhouse once again. And don't forget that your own PQ Government backs a policy of "citizen driven referendums" which could be their own downfall as we may find that these become very popular in the next few years to get rid of your people that are chocking the life out of the economy and the rights of people to conduct their own business as they see fit and not how your politicians see fit.

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    26. My question to you is "why?" An independent Quebec is presumably French only. Why would Canada need to accommodate French to get non-French speakers out of Quebec? The examples I gave you above are all majority non-French.

      1) They are still a lot of Francophones throughout Canada

      2) Even in those majority non-French area, there is a large Francophone population

      3) More Francophones might potentially vote for partition if Canada remains bilingual.

      Delete
    27. @G. Legare: What makes you think the feds will sit back and let the PQ be totally in charge of the next question on separation? They have to approve the question by the Supreme Court Ruling. If this is the case why not use the results from a question which is clear such as: Do you want to separate from Canada? and use those results of say 63% of each federal district to decide who stays with Canada and who leaves? I see nothing wrong with that: killing two birds with one stone so to speak and then we all get this disaster over and done with once and for all. Do you not want to see the end of this on-going battle? Most of us, even those that live here, are sick to death of quebec and it's politics. Do you not want to see this resolved or is only resolved after another hundred years of your policies killing us all off.

      Delete
    28. G. Legare,

      1) They are still a lot of Francophones throughout Canada

      Population of Canada is 33 476 688, with 7 054 975 francophones. Population of Quebec is 7 903 001, with 5 877 660 francophones. Ceteris paribus, francophone population in Canada without Quebec is 1 177 315 or 4.60% of the total population. And that Canada needs to be bilingual to accommodate 4.6% of the population because...?

      2) Even in those majority non-French area, there is a large Francophone population

      Large or not large they are still minority. Meaning that should there be a referendum, they will be defeated. Again, that Canada needs to be bilingual to accommodate those who can easily be defeated because...?

      3) More Francophones might potentially vote for partition if Canada remains bilingual.

      See point 2. Also, those francophones have bigger option, move to Quebec. Just like point 1., trying to accommodate them, which will comprise less than 5% of the population is beneficial because...?

      Delete
    29. @P. Darwinopterus

      Well, it has happened before, and I think the Jura solution could apply in Qc as well.

      If I'm right, you are referring to the French-speaking canton of Jura which is adjacent to the German-speaking canton of Bern. Jura was given to the canton of Bern by the Congress of Vienna in 1815. As you might have guessed, this caused tension not only because of the language barrier, but also because of religious differences---most people in Jura are Catholics while most Bernese are Protestants. Well, there was a long struggle by Jura activists to secede from Bern---not to become their own separate country or to become part of France, but merely to be a separate canton within the Swiss Confederation. Well, there was a referendum in 1979 across Switzerland, and Jura became a canton in its own right.

      Or MOST of Jura. There's actually a small part of Jura in the south that opted NOT to become part of the new Jura canton but rather remain a part of Bern. You might be guessing this is because there was a lot of German-speakers in this part of Jura, but that's not true. The main reason they opted to remain Bernese is because they're mostly Protestant, even though they speak French. (You could say this is Switzerland's equivalent of Northern Ireland.) The French speaking section of Bernese Jura is also the reason why the canton of Bern is bilingual, and not because the city of Bern is Switzerland's capital.

      Anyway, you can read more about it here:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Jura

      Delete
  11. And here we go with government interference in the business world yet again:
    http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-government-may-regulate-the-price-of-books-1.1413787

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    1. This is totally outrageous. More Quebeckers will be shopping in Ottawa or Cornwall or getting PO boxes in Lancaster. I actually shop in independant bookstore in Toronto and Kingston and the price is cheaper. Those Quebeckers businessman will have to become successful by lowering the price or offering better services instead of leeching the system. What next? Regulating the price of soft drink because the local "depanneur" isn't successful. Guess seperatist Legault will support Crazy Marois in the scheme or better yet, will nationalise Quebec bookstore and ban all english book from the province.

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    2. Barnes & Noble
      102 Dorset Street
      South Burlington, VT 05403
      802-864-8001

      Delete
  12. This article is bang on.
    I myself have a 100% quebecois name, and when people find out my language is actually english, its like I've betrayed them. Why is it their concern?
    Keep up the good work!

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  13. Enjoy the latest video exposing this bilingual scam…and if care please pass it on.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZz61S3sTA8


    “French power” folks, this is the term brought to Ottawa by Trudeau and his gang from Kebec, Marchand, Pelletier and the rest. They bragged about it and did it.

    Until the charter is repealed and we go back to our original constitution, the BNA act, this country will continue to be divided, will continue to further and further into debt, will continue to live the lie of being a bilingual country, and all the spin and propaganda that has come with it, yes the linguistic duality lie, the 2 founding nations lie, the french only Kebec lie…See what he really did? We have lived this lie for 30 years now and its about time someone starts speaking the truth openly about what really went on in regards to the forcing of this mess, Trudeau and Kebecs charter of rights and freedoms. We have fewer rights and less freedoms now because of this hoax, this fraud.

    They bragged about how they would turn Canada into a French state and they have been doing that for the last 5 decades….some quotes below…

    If people really knew what the hell was going on in Quebec, in Canada over the last 5 decades, they would be shocked. Many of us know this but politicians from all mainstream parties have let us down, have ignored the truth, the facts, they have been the problem…it’s a bloody mess.

    I suggest people get a hold of a few books -The monstrous trick, His pride, our fall, The tragedy of Quebec and Conning the Canadians, Bilingual today, French tomorrow, Enough…many, many books if you look for them…

    How about a few quotes from these bigots.

    .” ….Given these facts, should French-speaking people concentrate their efforts on Quebec or take the whole of Canada as their base? In my opinion, they should do both; and for the purpose they could find no better instrument than federalism”, Pierre Trudeau,.

    "I cannot swear it but I think we were thinking to ourselves,... we are a small group, Trudeau, Pelletier, Marchand, Lalonde, Chrétien, myself and a few people in the civil service, say 50 all told…we were bringing off a revolution. We held the key posts. We were making the civil service bilingual (French), kicking and screaming all the time". Jean-Luc Pepin, Minister of Industry, 1970.

    So while Quebec bans the English language (bill 22, bill 178, bill 101…), wipes out its real BNA, UEL history, while ethnic language cleansing is going on in Quebec, the rest of the country is forced to fund whatever the French (metis) demand. This is going on in every province. Go check.

    Bilingualism, not really... First comes the right to communicate with gov't in a minority language (ie French),then comes bilingualism, then comes the right to work in the language of choice(ie French), then comes a bilingual boss,(ie French) then comes a exclusively French department and on it goes until its all French. Its happening all over the country, Ontario, New Brunswick…That’s what’s really going on.

    “My roll as Secretary of State of Canada is first and foremost to ensure that my French compatriots in Canada feel with deep conviction, as I do, that this is their country and that it reflects their image”. “I too had some difficult years as a politician; I’m still having them, in fact, because everything we undertake and everything we are doing to make Canada a French state is part of a venture I have shared for many years with a number of people”. “You know the idea, the challenge, the ambition of making Canada a French country both inside and outside Quebec — an idea some people consider a bit crazy, is something a little beyond the ordinary imagination”. – Serge Joyal, Secretary of State – Page 2 ‘ENOUGH’ by J.V. Andrew. – Serge Joyal – Now in the Senate.

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  14. Well this francophone has found a way to escape charges of being a sex offender and domestic abuser. I guess the seppies will support him anyway because, after all, he's french.
    http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/14/judge-declares-mistrial-after-court-fails-to-find-more-than-two-french-speaking-jurors-for-sexual-touching-trial/#disqus_thread

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  15. Wonder if they are going to check out Serge Joyal's expenses now that the cat is out of the bag with Wallin,Harb,Duffy etc etc. Suspect a lot of the members of the upper house will be looking over their shoulders. Brad Wall has it correct,,get rid of the Senate. Wallin was on TV indicating she wanted to work for the good people of Saskatchewan. Well, one astute commentator made the statement that if she really wanted to represent the best interests of SK , that she should work to abolish the senate which is the overwhelming opinion of the SK people. (86 percent of Saskatchewan Party MLA's voted to rid Canada of the senate).

    On bilingualism and the Official Language Act. This albatross has been a huge failure at a monstrous cost. For the record good old PET put the OLA in in 1969 so quite a bit more than 30 years so far. How many stories do we have to hear about anglo civil servants being sent for French lessons, even those less than 5 years away from retirement. Hiring quota for the civil service of Canada is 40% bilingual. What the really means is 40% who can speak French. Number of unilingual francos in Canada is less than 13%....what's wrong with this picture. For instance, the hiring quota for Saskatchewan is about 5% bilingual....Well, got news, fewer than 0.4% of the households speak French and the number of unilingual francos is less than nothing. Simply put, there is no need for bilingual services in Western Canada, Ontario and most of the Maritimes. But, we still invest billions (2.4 billion per year by last count) towards this failed program, that in fact, actually discriminates against the anglo majority of this country.

    Funny how Harper, who formerly condemned bilingualism as the God that failed and which has done nothing to further any national unity, now starts many of his addresses and speeches with his new found love of linguistics.

    Then you have Grahame Fraser who is all for French programs in the ROC but remains very quiet about the discrimination against anglos (English) in Quebec. Would be interesting to see how much money we , as taxpayers, funnel into his office to further the French fact in Canada. In reality, the official language commissioner in Canada should be renamed to the Commissioner for the Advancement of French in the ROC.

    In any event, a good article by the Editor...pretty much tells things the way they are, and will likely continue. Political correctness is nothing more than a blindfold on the truth.

    Have a nice weekend.





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    1. Good post, bang on. People really have no idea what these racist, bigoted people are up to.

      “My roll as Secretary of State of Canada is first and foremost to ensure that my French compatriots in Canada feel with deep conviction, as I do, that this is their country and that it reflects their image”. “I too had some difficult years as a politician; I’m still having them, in fact, because everything we undertake and everything we are doing to make Canada a French state is part of a venture I have shared for many years with a number of people”. “You know the idea, the challenge, the ambition of making Canada a French country both inside and outside Quebec — an idea some people consider a bit crazy, is something a little beyond the ordinary imagination”. – Serge Joyal, Secretary of State – Page 2 ‘ENOUGH’ by J.V. Andrew. – Serge Joyal – Now in the Senate. What a parasite this guy is...

      The videos below prove all of this...enjoy and spread the word if you care.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW33xkVB-oI

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhPcV0gtFR0

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abOWJkf-Vh8

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iGZE6zxoKQ

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZz61S3sTA8

      If you care please pass them on, post them far and wide…thanks.





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  16. A very wise excerpt from someone on FB about quebec:

    "The PQ's entire platform is based upon systematically taking away rights from one group to make another feel more secure. In fact, the only difference between the PQ and these other separatist parties is in how many rights they intend to take away from non-Francophone groups. How this is supposed to improve the economy, encourage literacy, improve international perceptions and relations, is anyone's guess. It's like the bull-headed bully in grade 5 who everyone (except himself) knew was going to have to repeat the grade while everyone else moved forward.

    The world is passing by Quebec. It's not seeming as special as it once did. Its vibrant cultural diversity has been replaced by a divisive mindset hell-bent on forcing respect as opposed to earning it through thoughtfulness and accomplishment. Ultimately, it's a house of cards level of esteem destined to crumble at the slightest impact because it has no real foundation."

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  17. Editor: "francophones have come under the impression that there is an equivalency between languages, the need for anglophone Canadians to learn French, as necessary as francophones to learn English. French language militants always boast that francophones are more bilingual than Anglophones, but fail to understand that the need for an Anglophone to speak French can in no way compare to a francophones's need to speak English. It's like boasting that more girls use makeup than boys....there is no equivalency. Sorry for the painful truth....."

    The delusion of equivalency is peddled by Quebec elites, and some people actually buy it. I often spot examples of this delusion reading comments under Le Devoir articles. Below is an example (a comment by JC Morin)

    http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/376585/rompre-avec-la-loi-101

    Daniel Bouchard - Inscrit
    25 avril 2013 02 h 06
    Une mentalité de gens rétrograde au PQ
    Regardez la quote de popularité du PQ et vous verrez que la population n'est pas en accord avec ses politiques! Définitivement que notre jeunesse benéficierait grandement d'un bilinguisme élargie et je parle surtout de nos jeunes Québécois francophones!

    Jean-Charles Morin - Inscrit
    25 avril 2013 07 h 54
    C'est curieux de constater que les vertus du bilinguisme, tant chantés par Daniel Bouchard, ne sont pas pratiquées par les anglophones des autres provinces. Deux poids, deux mesures?

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    1. And this makes me feel even better: NOT
      http://money.ca.msn.com/savings-debt/yourmoney/home-sales-down-seven-per-cent-in-quebec

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    2. Please watch and share - thank you - we need all federalists that can attend to attend this event - crucial
      snt145.mail.live.com/default.aspx#n=839973574&fid=1&mid=c1a677a8-076c-11e3-bca4-00237de3f558&fv=1

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  18. There's nothing wrong with young Quebec Francophones not learning English. They have been taught from birth everything and everyone entering Quebec will be French or Francized, largely accomplished through the power of Quebec provincial legislation. This has been so successful that Quebec Francos carry the attitude of expecting French service outside of Quebec, and so we hear horror stories of Quebecers abroad blowing a gasket because bartenders in places like Florida, Cuba and Mexico can't serve them in God's own language.

    Moving on, Harper's de-bilingualization of the federal government is a welcome and overdue move. The day way Ottawa runs up the white flag and stops its children's crusade of encouraging ROC Canadians to learn French will be a great day indeed. Hey Quebec Anglos: being bilingual isn't the be-all end-all of personal skills.
    While I'm at it, even though I'm technically one, the passive attitude and low moral character of Quebec Anglos is absolutely revolting, as is their fanatical devotion to official bilingualism. If I was Prime Minister I would slap a huge tax on French-immersion courses taught outside of Quebec like we do presently on things likes cigarettes and alcohol. At any rate, I'm currently in the process of moving to another province and setting up my own business and looking to hire. But any applicant's CV that lists a Quebec address or a degree from Concordia, McGill or Bishop's is going right in the shredder.

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    1. Yet another example of how this PQ government's hatred for anything English has affected the personality of someone who was probably, at one point in time, a bit sympathetic to the plight of the francophone's that wanted to retain their language and culture. This attitude is changing rapidly all over Canada and sympathy is dwindling at an alarming rate - by the way, I can understand every bit of the bitterness. They damn well have only themselves to blame because nothing ever pleases them and nothing is ever enough.

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    2. The only thing is Jorge - someone you may hire from this Godforsaken place, may feel exactly as you and left for the same reasons.

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  19. http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/16/pq-mulls-regulating-price-of-books-to-save-struggling-stores-but-critics-say-insane-idea-will-only-hurt-sales/

    ReplyDelete
  20. I was with you, until you mentioned Hollywood. WHATEVER would young Quebecois need to understand Hollywood movies FOR? It's not as if A, these are worth the celluloid they're printed on, and B. are hard to understand.
    Only thing Hollywood is good for is movies with lotsa explosions.

    And Trudel has a point, it would behoove Bouchard to tweet in French as well, despite her elite Anglo school and neighborhood she's still Quebecois, but no one is saying she MUST, that is a TOTAL straw man!!

    ReplyDelete