Wednesday, February 13, 2013

92 Reasons to Ignore Sovereigntist Nonsense

Canada's provinces are 78% English. Quebec is Canadian a province...therefore.
Last week, with great fanfare a group funded by the PQ came out with a document detailing the 92 reasons Quebec is disadvantaged by remaining in Canada.

The document was largely ignored by the media, it contained a lot of gibberish and gobbledygook with the media featuring the one tidbit that would grab readers attention, the fact that it argued that francophones were subject to a 'soft-ethnocide' whereby Canada is slowly wiping out the French fact.

You can download the document and read it for yourself, but I assure you, it is as tedious as it is long.

After sniffing around, the media gave the document the short shrift, the news conference held by Conseil de la souverainete du Quebec, an embarrassing bust;
"A pro-independence organization held a news conference to unveil a new study that identifies 92 ways in which the Canadian federation hinders Quebec's development against the interests and values of Quebecers.
But the Montreal event generated little media coverage.
There were eight panellists at the news conference. There was only one question from a French-language media outlet. Daniel Paille, leader of the long-dominant Bloc Quebecois, didn't get a single question." Link
I read the complete document, or rather I should say I got through it, a painful exercise in endurance, considering that it is a blend of fact, fiction and fantasy, chock full of nonsense, the reading of which actually made my brain hurt.

Perhaps I can best describe the document as a foul attempt at deception and manipulation, or as they say in French 'poudre aux yeux.'

I wouldn't say that the document rises to the level of the Procotols of the Elders of Zion, but clearly the authors let their imagination get the better of them.

If you read it, consider the pervasive use of dishonest logical devices meant to deceive.
Cherry-picking. "the Canadian government awarded the contract to build its navy ships in Atlantic Canada, therefore Quebec is always disfavoured."
Using facts selectively or without context.
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. ("After this, therefore because of this.")
"It has been proven that all heroin addicts smoked marijuana in their youth. Therefore, smoking marijuana leads to heroin addiction"
Actually heroin addicts probably started on mother's milk....
Appeal to Ignorance: "See that door move, must be ghosts!" 
False Comparison: "The City of Vancouver doesn't require employees to speak French, so the city of Westmount should not demand bilingualism." 
The two cities have different circumstances.
Red Herring "Alberta is richer than Quebec, therefore federalism hurts Quebec"
Alberta's wealth has to do with oil, not federalism..
Concurrence Fallacy: "The country has gone downhill since religion has been taken out of school"
Two things happening at the same time need not indicate a causal relationship.
Faulty conclusion "In Quebec, there are proportionally more English television networks than French networks, thus penalizing francophone viewers."
A reduction in the amount of English networks will not increase the number of French networks.  

Read more about faulty logic from the source
As I said, I've gone through the study and would like to apprise readers of some of the faulty, distorted and downright dishonest conclusion offered.

Here's just a glimpse, I could find fault in just about every single conclusion offered, but considering that the document is being given the weight it deserves, I'll content myself with a few examples. 
"The last census informs us that in Quebec, citizens with French as a mother tongue fell to 79.1% and in 49% on the island of Montreal"
(Le dernier recensement nous apprend (à propos du Québec cette fois) que le poids des citoyens de langue maternelle française a chuté à 79,1 % au Québec et à 49,0 % sur l’île de Montréal.)
"Hmm...these readings are off the chart!"
How this is Canada's fault is mystifying.
There certainly isn't a large influx of non-French mother tongue Canadians invading the province from Canada.
The reality is that Quebec is welcoming about 50,000 new immigrants a year, a relatively new development meant to fill the void caused by a low birth rate.
Of those arriving immigrants, almost none, as one would expect, have French as a mother tongue. 

If Quebec separates, but still allows immigration, how will the downward direction of the mother-tongue statistic change?

In a section entitled; "Culture and media under the federal control", the authors make some at some startling conclusions. They complain about the CRTC, a federal institution having jurisdiction over television and radio.
"Quoiqu’ils ne représentent que 12,9 % de la population métropolitaine (8,3 % au Québec), les anglophones, grâce aux choix du CRTC, ont accès au tiers des stations de radio (31 %) et à la moitié des six chaînes de télévision. Ils sont desservis par deux quotidiens : la Gazette de Montréal et le Record de Sherbrooke, dont le tirage atteint 17 % des ventes totales du Québec. De plus, ils disposent également d’une vingtaine de journaux dans les régions."
The authors complain that just 8.3% of anglophones benefit from having one third of the radio stations and half of the television stations in Quebec and then complain about the language of newspapers.
At any rate, there are three problems with the statement.

First: A misleading  statistic is offered concerning Anglophones, that is the fact that Quebec is comprised of no more than 8.3% of people with English as a mother tongue. It is here that the mother tongue issue is used to distort.
According to StasCan 13.1% of Quebecers use English day to day, regardless of their mother tongue. In other words, 13.1% of Quebecers read English newspapers, watch English TV and fill out income tax forms in English. Making allusions to Mother tongue is irrelevant, it conveniently ignores immigrants who have adopted either English or French as their language of choice.
Newspapers are not controlled by the government and if free citizens decide to read the Montreal Gazette, how is this a problem and how is this the fault of Canada. Do the authors maintain that an independent Quebec will control the number of people who can have access to English newspapers or the number of newspapers allowed to be sold?
If the authors are complaining about the availability of English newspapers, how about books? Is it also Canada's fault that more English books are available than French?
...a note.
Language militants will never, ever, mention the subject of books when discussing limits on English culture. They will never, ever propose that like Hollywood films, books be embargoed in Quebec without a translated French version.
Even they understand how dangerous and humiliating is the subject of book-banning..
Third: The fact that there are a lot of English television stations available in Quebec, doesn't mean that a reduction thereof will lead to more French stations, the market of which is already saturated.
Considering how few francophones actually watch English television, the analogy is irrelevant.
Do the authors contend that an independent Quebec will limit access to English networks from Canada or the United States a la North Korea?

Quebec as a net contributor
Throughout the study, the authors complain that Quebec is shortchanged in various federal government programs and intimate that they are over-contributing.
Fully one third of the study, the part that complains that Quebec is not getting its fair share of federal programs can be debunked by considering one incontrovertable fact..
That is, that when it is all said and done, Quebec gets more from Ottawa than it pays in.

In 2009, of the $215 billion that Ottawa took in, Quebec contributed about 39 billion dollars, about 18.5% of the total. Note that this contrasts with the authors who fudged Quebec's contribution, claiming that the province contributes over 20%
Considering that Quebec's population is about 23.5% of Canada's, it means that Quebec makes a significant under-contribution to Ottawa's budget.

Now of the $241 billion Ottawa spent that year, (there was a deficit,) Quebec received benefits totaling $53 billion, a difference of over $13 billion from what it contributed. Link
For the authors of the report to cherry-pick the various programs where Quebec receives less than its fair share, without balancing against the programs where it receives more, is just plain dishonest.

Here' a couple of other tibits;
Reason 20....Quebec suffers because Canada didn't respect the Kyoto Accords.
Had Quebec been an independent country and signed and respected the accord, the effects would have been devastating on the economy. Even without Alberta in the picture, the emission reduction required to conform, would have crippled the economy. It is fantasy to believe that Quebecers are prepared for the sacrifices, its just easier to blame Canadians for their failure.

Reason 39....Quebec suffers because Ottawa is the capital of Canada and the related spending there, hurts Quebec
The idea that  Quebec is short-changed here fails to consider the fact that francophones are over-represented in the federal civil service, an inconvenient fact.
"Today francophones, who represent 24% of Canada's population, occupy 31.5% of jobs in the Public Service of Canada, including 30% of management-level jobs." Wikipedia
Reason 40....It is the federal government which favours Toronto's Pearson airport over Montreal.
Of course market forces have nothing to do with it and in an independent Quebec, market forces won't exist...

Reason 44...Ottawa  is hindering the development of a high speed train in the Windsor/Quebec corridor
Anybody who has studied the issue will tell you that the project is a pipe dream, horribly expensive and completely impracticable considering the load factor. After all, how many people woke up this morning in Windsor with plans to travel to Quebec City?
Aside from all that, why would an independent Quebec need a high speed rail hike to Toronto as travel between the two cities will likely collapse as the two countries sever ties.

Reason 47...As the Montreal port reaches it saturation point, Ottawa is directing business to Halifax
I'd like to know what scenario in an independent Quebec would lead the port of Montreal to increase its business.
Surely shippers who had product destined to Canada would ship to Canada, not Quebec. In fact the business in the Port of Montreal would probably be significantly reduced as shippers react to the new realty, wherein Montreal is not in Canada, to where the bulk of these shipments are destined.

Reason 45...Ottawa has shirked its responsibility in allowing Air Canada to close its maintenance facility in Montreal
In what altered universe would Air Canada maintain an overpriced and over-regulated facility in an independent Quebec. Now if you're thinking that a new airline like Quebecair will rise to replace the mighty Air Canada and do its maintenance in Quebec, you might want to ask where Air Transat does its overhauls.

Reason 48...Ottawa has reduced its financial support to universities.
I thought that education was a provincial matter, that is what the militants always remind us.
In an independent Quebec, do the authors expect Ottawa to continue funding Quebec universities?

Reason 51.. Quebec has contributed $15 billion of the $60 billion spent on research.
("En recherche, entre 1994 et 2008, sur un total de 60 476 milliards $ (dont le Québec a défrayé par ses impôts au Canada quelque 15 milliards $
Now the authors change their math. Their earlier reference to Quebec's federal contribution of 20% has now risen to 25%. ($60 billion divided by $15 billion= 25%) 
They should be reminded of the bullshitter's golden rule, which is to remember your own lies and stick with the same story.

Reason 55...Ottawa has robbed the Employment insurance by confiscating billions paid by workers and placing the money in the general fund.
Ottawa may have done exactly so, but they weren't robbing Quebecers, they were actually robbing other Canadians.
In re-routing contributions to the general fund, Quebecers are big benificiaries because they take out more than their fair share of the general pie. The bigger the pie, the more they benefit.
In fact Quebec contributes less than 20% of the total of EI funds revenues, but takes out about 40% in benefits.
It means that each year, aside from what Ottawa takes out of the fund, Quebec receives about $700 million more than it puts in.
If I lived in the rest of Canada and heard a separatist politician demanding that Canada repatriate the program to Quebec jurisdiction, I would wish that politician good luck and ask him or her, if by chance, they'd be interested in repatriating some spent nuclear fuel rods as well!

Reason 70/1: Canada spends $5 billion in foreign aid, of which Quebec's contribution is 20% (now we're back to 20%) which according to the authors is not enough. I don't exactly understand the point the author is making in pointing out Quebec's contribution. Are they actually telling us that a broke-ass independent Quebec will raise the amount spent on foreign aid?
Then the authors complain that francophone countries are being systematically denied Canadian foreign aid, perhaps forgetting that the largest beneficiary of Canadian largess is Haiti, at over $300 million.

In conclusion, a lot of these 92 reasons are really nothing more than bitching and moaning, an exercise in cynical spin and deception, so it's lucky that the document is a bust, something that only dedicated sovereigntists will bother with.
If this is what we are to expect in the new campaign to promote sovereignty, we are going to witness an exercise in futility 

And as Shakespeare put it, it is just;

Sound and fury...signifying nothing.


  1. And you want to make a country out of THIS?

    1. It is rather perverse and absurd, isn't it? This can only be the work of the Qu Qlux Qlan. The Q's, of course, are to separate (pardon the pun) ultra nationalist hateful backward Franco Québécois from the Klan in the hateful backward post-confederate southern American states.

      Similarities? You bet! Both consist mostly of poor people, i.e., financially poor, educationally deficient (but not always) and disenfranchised. The American Klan are WASPs while the Qlan are Franco Catholics.

      Perverse and absurd, indeed.

    2. @sauga

      "Perverse and absurd, indeed."

      there's nothing perverse nor absurd in a nation longing for political control over its destiny.

      you may not agree. you may like canada as it is and fight against a split, but you'll have to use better arguments then analogies with kkk if you care about convincing anybody that sports a minimum of good faith.

      if you really think quebec's independance drive is perverse and absurd, you'll have to confirm you think the same about the movements in slovenia, ireland and india that led to their freedom.

    3. Another Village idiot has spoken.... book banning equals Freedom... imbecil.. you must be failing...

    4. This is the mentality that we're dealing with in this God-forsaken place. They honestly believe they are better and smarter than all of North America. We must partition this place and get rid of these tumours just in case they metastasize and take some of us with them to their doom. On with the surgery!

    5. Ireland is partitioned which is what we have to do here to gain independence and freedom from our oppressors - the separatist governments of quebec.

    6. La partition de l'Irlande a créé bien des problèmes et c'est l'une des raisons pour laquelle la partition d'un territoire nouvellement indépendant est proscrit par la communauté internationale.

      D'autant plus qu'au Québec la présence d'un groupe ethnique de langue anglaise ne repose sur aucune légitimité, puisque due à une conquête militaire.

    7. LOL - and you think the partition of a country isn't going to create many problems. Boy you people have some nerve:
      The presence of a French-language ethnic group is not based on legitimacy, since they lost the war (and you can't change history) that determined their fate and they were provided much more land than they occupied at that time in order to become a part of the new Country of Canada. The province of quebec is just that and that only: a province within a country.
      1. Should the province of quebec separate from Canada and we win the civil war that will take place, then the land is ours once again by default and military might.
      2. Should the separatists win the civil war that will take place, then we will demand that our area(s) separate from quebec as we are (and definitely will be) an oppressed society within the country of quebec and have a heritage back to the battle of the Plains of Abraham, the international community will look upon that favourably.
      Following our win of a referendum based on 50+1 to secede from the new country of quebec, we will be the newly independent territory and recognized by the international community with borders established at the time of the referendums. We will then request Canada to give us a new status as a Province within the country of Canada. Our right to secede from quebec is as legitimate as the separatists' right to secede from Canada and all I'm trying to do by promoting partition is eliminate steps 1. and 2.

    8. student: I thought you knew me better than that, and I think you're therefore trolling...again. I'm perfectly fine with Quebec separating. You'll get what you deserve. If partition subsequently ends up taking place, you'll get even more of what you deserve.

    9. « D'autant plus qu'au Québec la présence d'un groupe ethnique de langue anglaise ne repose sur aucune légitimité, puisque due à une conquête militaire. »

      With the sh*t you’ve pulled in the past 40 yrs, in this province, you have no bloody business talking about…”Legitimacy”.

      UN –F-believable!

    10. @sauga

      "I thought you knew me better than that..."

      i don't know you at all, mate. i only know you take pleasure in quebec bashing. it's an important trait, but still a small bit of the big picture i hope.

      "I'm perfectly fine with Quebec separating."

      ok, but you still wrote that quebec's drive to do so is "absurd and perverse". i want you to confirm all quests for political independance are, in your humble opinion, "absurd and perverse".


      " have no bloody business talking about…”Legitimacy”."

      the quebec independance project is not legit now? now that's absurd. you don't have to jump on the bandwagon, mate, but you can't claim a nation has no legitimacy trying to get political control over its affairs.

      try reason instead.

    11. student: Heaven knows while I was living in the Montreal area I endured endless daily fed bashing, so think of my "Quebec bashing" as a return favour for all I endured. Too, however, I see Quebec now as nothing but an expense and a burden on the federal system. Provincia non grata!

    12. @sauga

      "I endured endless daily fed bashing, so think of my "Quebec bashing" as a return favour for all I endured."

      what did you think of fed bashing at the time sauga?

      "I see Quebec now as nothing but an expense and a burden..."

      cool. but what about india's and ireland's independance drives sauga? were thay "absurd and perverse" too?

    13. and you are a student.... your argument is simply invalid and you know nothing... just another little brainwashed fuck and a failing education system.... shut the fuck up and go sit... there is no Quebec bashing.... this is a PQ term because they can't accept the simple truth these ignorant and arrogant fools... do not know what they are talking about driven by a stupid way of mind that make them believe they are in danger of being "assimilated" which

      and there you are comparing Ireland and Quebec.... are you fucking serious ? why not compare that to when William Wallace led his rebellion against the English (who were really tyrants back then towards the Scottish people).... so go then take up arms and fight for your freedom.... nope you will just keep on sitting back and opening your mouths with nonsense speeches so Canada is such a tyrant towards your little bipolar province... yeah right that's why they are always doing something for Quebec ALWAYS even when that thing is supposed to be a PROVINCE MATTER.... they turn back and cry for help to the federal who helps them....

      so why not use the term Canada Bashing now... but that is all what Quebec does... you are not happy in Canada?... Grab your bags and get the fuck outta our lands dumb fuck traitors.... go find a Island and colonize it with your so important retarded french

    14. Someone drank too much of the National Post kool-aid, just like you buddy Richard Henry Bain.

  2. Lord Dorchester

    Great posting Editor. Holding up a mirror to the bullshit the Separatists keep spewing is one of this blog's great attributes. Not surprising that this "report" was basically ignored by the press, from the looks of it, it seems to have been cobbled together by a bunch of separatist cool-aid swilling amateurs that play fast and loose with the facts. If they hope to sway anyone to their cause, they really need to step up their game. This amateur kindergarten crap won't cut it.

    On another note, I encourage everyone to fill in the bilingual online form the PQ government has put up regarding their new language law Bill 14. This is an opportunity to have your voice heard.

    1. I'll avoid filling in that online form like the plague. This will give the PQ wackos a data base to come after those whom they don't like; besides, spew all you like to the government about this hateful, perverse law. If will fall on blind eyes and deaf ears. Too, they know exactly where the anti Bill 14 responses are going to come from already--West Central Montreal and the West Island. Very predictable.

    2. Wow - when you look at the form Mr. Sauga is right. They want so much personal information that I will not fill it out and I suggest no one else does either. We have to e-mail Legault and ask for his support to vote against Bill 14 along with the liberals. That's the way to deal with this not by giving them further info to hold against us in the future. As soon as your name is on there it will be put in an "Alglo" file along with the garbage and discounted anyway. They never have and never will give one sweet shit about how we feel about anything - we are less than dogs to the PQ nuts.

  3. Great article.
    a couple of typos?

    Red Herring "Alberta is richer than Quebec, therefore federalism hurts Quebec"
    Alberta's wealth has to do with oil, federalism..

    oil, federalism..
    missing a not?

    Reason 51...
    take out more then
    than ?

  4. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, February 13, 2013 at 7:09:00 AM EST

    Please quebecois stop talking! You need action now!
    Please separate, get the hell out and leave the rest of Canada alone!
    The above words are the actual opinion of the large majority of folks I talked to in the past few months here in Calgary.

    BTW those 92 reasons reek of fabrication and dishonesty, very similar to when Hitler torched the Reichstag back in 1933:

    I remember when my mother told me that Jacques Parizeau was a very loyal Montreal Gazette reader back in the days. She worked as a secretary for a while in the early 70s at the HEC (where I graduated with a BBA) when Jacques was a rockstar professor... So yes, some french quebecois do read evil english rags...

  5. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, February 13, 2013 at 7:15:00 AM EST

    The study and its 92 lies will eventually not serve the (all) separatists right. The upper class seppies may all lie, mislead, cheat and deceive its people now but once separated from Canada, the truth will come out. Quebec will sink fast. All they will have for keeps will be its $400 000 000 000 ($400 BILLION)debt and 92 lies. Looks like some sectarian war in the making there...Balkan 2.0

  6. Hopefully people will continue to ignore this stupid document (other than the likes of IF and SSJB) - they are getting really careless with their propaganda and making too many obvious mistakes. Having worked in the federal government for many years, especially in ship repairs and building, I can tell you that quebec was given every break and benefit possible when bidding on work to build and/or repair ships. They were not awarded this contract simply because it could be done cheaper and better by other shipyards in other provinces. Why does quebec think that they should be given work simply because they're quebec? This has been a thorn in the side of quebec for as long as I can remember - they have a mentality that just because they are quebec, they deserve to be treated differently and better than companies in other provinces. They have been so brainwashed and spoiled that they honestly believe they are "different". I always found it weird - if they want to be independent, then grow up and take your lumps if you want to play in the big leagues. The federal government is working out of the public purse and has a responsibility to ensure that every company, in every province, is treated equally and fairly plus get the best value for the least amount of money. Quebec is not "special" and it's high time they learned that.

    1. cutie pie
      it may help you to understand that "delusions of Grandeur" are the core of Narcissism. So, of course if you are the special "distinct" unique purlaine race FC " the heroic pure blooded race that has been degraded by conquest, lured away from their birthright by foreign influences, by Jews, by English, by non Catholics" (Lionel Groulx)...
      Then of course you are absolutely entitled to special treatment just cause you exist and eternal compensation for the world's failures to appreciate you.
      And if you live in a democratic meritocracy, you must deploy violent psychological war to manipulate and control any perception to the contrary.
      Seeing, Canadians are too stupid to perceive that Joual is the heroic lost language of the kings and queens of old ;therfore, we must legislate it so by force.
      All FC's must be kept isolated alienated from American values to ensure controlled "inbreeding" of our divine values of Statism.
      If apostrophes are sperm;language laws are condoms.
      The rare pure race must be protected from pollution.
      The heroic threatened species protected from extinction.
      Canada, nay North America and the entire universe exist only to pay for, pay hommage to, and protect this gorgeous peacock from goin the way of the dodo..
      Gee, Cutie, what about that dont you get?
      All joking aside,this is ultimately why I am a partitionist.
      According to all authorities, Narcissism is as untreatable as it is infectious.
      So,this ethnically induced collective psychosis here is unbeatable as it is inbred and spread stealthily.
      According to all authorities the only solution, as in any epidemic, is isolate the diseased from general population.
      And avoid all contact.

      From family to community, school and thru government.

    2. Serez-vous au festival international de l'angryphone de Montréal le 17,lenoir?J'espère seulement que vous serez en grand nombre,serait-ce que pour attirer l'attention de quelques médias afin que les Québécois puissent voir à quoi ressemble les vrais racistes,ceux qui méprisent notre "joual" et menacent réellement notre nation.

    3. Couldn't agree with you more - we must partition and let them go their own way. It's past the time of negotiation and reasoning with them simply because they are unreasonable; they honestly believe they are better, more intelligent, more humane, more environmentally conscious, more entitled than others in the country and this is our fault by indulging their whims and spoiling them for the past 40 years. We, as Canadians, have pampered the shit out of them and now we are paying the price by raising a generation of spoiled, incompetent, historically deprived individuals. Canada should have nipped this whole movement in the bud back in 1982 by telling them that they were either in or out of confederation - not letting them abuse the ROC from then on by giving into their unrelenting quest for power and money. Partition Party or Equality Party adds this option to their platform. They must now be let to go their own way and sink without dragging us all with them.

  7. This comment you gave to reason 20 "its just easier to blame Canadians for their failure" pretty much resumes what it all comes down to.

  8. In the mean time, Quebec road are breaking down, our municipal pension plan are quickly becoming insolvent, our schools are lacking funds, ER wait times are increasing. The PQ government are a bunch of corrupt fools who don't know a thing on economics. BIll 101 is a show to hide real issues and hide the PQ incompetence.

    Quebec would collapse without Canada. Their would be an exodus in Montreal and Gatineau. Waiver from Bill 101 would end. High taxes would encourage many people and businesses to leave. Pharmaceuticals company would rush to Toronto. Air Canada would move to Toronto, consolidating Pearson at Trudeau expense. SLC-Lavalin would no longer be favored by the Federal governement leaving for Toronto and Western Canada engineering firm to compete. The separation of Quebec from Canada would reinforce Toronto's position as Canada's dominant metropolitan centre. Indeed, with Montreal removed from Canada, there would be no challengers. Toronto would be the logical destination for any migrating head offices to go. These head offices would bring with them the need for an expansion of key support areas such as financial, accounting, legal and other business services, resulting in many spin-offs to Toronto and Mississauga.

    1. I agree with most of your comments however not sure Toronto would be the sole destination for many of these companies. If you look at growth in cities over the past 10-20 years Calgary has outperformed Toronto handily with more head offices per capita. Remember that Ontario is in a fiscally weak position..Alberta is in a much stronger position and is even more business friendly. Toronto is very expensive on many levels and in my opinion over-rated..from the point of view of quality of friendly environment..can-do attitude..favourable taxes..infrastructure I think Calgary wins hands down. The west is where the growth will continue to be over the next few manufacturing will continue to bleed from Canada and commodities continuing to be in strong demand.

    2. Liam: "Pharmaceuticals company would rush to Toronto?" Jean Coutu did set up a colossal warehouse near Cornwall! Perhaps Lavalin will eventually relocate, with any least its head office. Maybe Dayjardon will move out of Complexe Desjardins and relocate over the border. I don't think I'd stop laughing if Hydro Quebec relocated to Ontario!

  9. I think we all agree that Quebec on its own would quickly lead to its own demise. The problem is that many francophones believe the propoganda put forth by the Parti Quebecois. I have had numerous discussions with francophones many who are quite well educated and they truly believe that Quebec is being ripped off by the rest of Canada and that they would have billions more if they seperated from Canada. I tell them about all the transfers from Canada into Quebec..about how many companies would shut down and move out..about all the anglophones and many francophones who would leave but they dont believe it. As someone stated earlier people believe what they want to believe and what they have been taught from an early age. The comments on this forum might put some doubts in a few francophones ears but in the end it wont change their thinking..especially given that an enemy anglophone is the one spreading the word.

    1. "The comments on this forum might put some doubts in a few francophones ears but in the end it wont change their thinking..especially given that an enemy anglophone is the one spreading the word."

      I must admit that when "complicated" isn't on his CAQ kick/rant, he can make a lot of sense. LOL

      I do agree with the fact that, because the messenger may not necessarily be percieved as the "right" messenger; there is a possbility that it may all fall on deaf ears. We all know that if Jack Layton would not have gotten a public endorsement by TLMEP, orange crush wouldn’t be the official opposition in Ottawa today.

      There are smart, educated Francophone who visit this blog, (trolls excluded obviously), fluently bilingual, and thus have a good understanding of what Editor writes and posts about, but one can tell, they are more inclined to side with the PQ/sovereignty perspective than not. One comes to this conclusion just with what they say and how they say it, even without saying it.

      With all due respect to Editor, (his excellent blog pieces, notwithstanding) I have often thought that every single one of his posts is a lost opportunity when not translated into French. The reality however, I am quickly learning, is that it probably wouldn’t make a huge difference. The cancer is too far gone and the small injections of chemo, though powerful, aren’t entirely effective as they ought to be. That said; Hope springs eternal that a miracle may happen; and that ‘common sense’ (enfin), hits the province like a lightning bolt, destroying the myriad of disbelievers and phony detractors in the process.

      Editor, please keep those posts comin’, it is a well known fact that small steady beach waves have shaped entire coastlines, the world over! Hope is the last to die.

    2. I don't think a Quebec on its own would lead to its own demise.

      I think that if Quebec ever achieved independence they would realize very quickly how much they need anglophone know-how, money, investment, entrepreneurship, etc. And since they would now have their own country, they wouldn't have to be anglophobic any longer.

      That's why I believe they would quickly sober up and get rid of Bill 101...and institute changes so that they would make it as attractive as possible for anglophones to come and live in Quebec.

      Much, MUCH preferable than a Quebec within Canada in which Quebec can, at will, violate human rights and essentially sh*t on their minority anglophone population without any repercussions from anyone. And they have the tacit approval of the federal government to do so, too, as they have for the past 40 years.

  10. The Decline of Corporate Montreal

    "The government of Quebec should take seriously the long term decline of Montreal as a major corporate hub. Ever increasing taxes on corporate and personal income have made Montreal's business climate uncompetitive compared to other major Canadian cities. Making the tax system more competitive would be an important step towards securing and recapturing Montreal's position as one of Canada's corporate hubs."

    The Quebec government can not because it is beholden to special interest groups. Also, Quebec is subsidizing the babies in this province facing declining birth rates (in vitro fertilization, and cheap daycare, only jurisdiction in Canada to do those)

    1. @liam

      "Ever increasing taxes on corporate..."

      where did you take this from?

      my source says your wrong, as quebec has low corporate tax rates:

      is this rate "ever increasing"?

      no. it's going down.

      double check what your brother-in-law tells next time liam.

    2. @liam

      "Also, Quebec is subsidizing the babies in this province facing declining birth rates (in vitro fertilization, and cheap daycare, only jurisdiction in Canada to do those)"

      although it's not clear, you seem not to support programs that are meant to increase birth rate. why?

    3. The truth lies somewhere in between the two. The article is talking about Montreal in relation to the rest of Canada that it is competing for jobs with (primarily BC, Alberta, New Brunswick and Ontario) so while it has a comparability low corporate tax rate to the states, to the rest of Canada it is towards the higher end.

      The overall tax rate is going down that is true, but it is going down because the federal tax rate is decreasing not Quebec`s. Which means that while Quebec will have a lower rate so will every other province in Canada, which means Quebec will still have a relatively higher tax rate than it`s provincial competition.

      Quebec`s corporate tax rate (not the combined tax rate) is increasing, though not dramatically so, it went from 11.4% - 11.9% in 2009, which again does put it at a disadvantage with other provinces.

      As to the high income tax rate, I don`t think anyone will argue that it is not very high in Quebec.

  11. This is off topic but I though you might like to see the latest crazy person screaming at an anglophone in the metro about language.

    Just another normal day in Montreal.

    1. What a crazy women. "I hope she sees this video and realizes people all over the world think she's crazy." LOL.

    2. Readers, I travel a lot on the subway in New York City. Whether its the 4 the F N or Q train, there is more often than not a nutter like this on the train, either muttering, singing, rapping or selling Jesus loudly. I always thought it was different in Montreal, but ironically never use the metro here, so I cannot say. BTW, people's reaction to these outbursts in NYC is the same, they just ignore it.

    3. But this is about language Editor - Those in New York may be a bit mentally deranged but are they putting people down because they're black or just babbling? There is a difference. If she was mentally deranged and bad mouthing someone because she didn't like their shoes, it would be different. This is much more specific and no excuse as far as I'm concerned.

    4. Editor, I was in the New York Metro and spoke french. No one cared. Two people were speaking spanish and another group were speaking chinese. No one tried to stop them. Blacks, hispanic, white were all on the metro with no problem. New York is a cosmopolitain city, and different people ride the metro. What happened in Montreal was different, you had a women who was just being rude, and frankly insulting. I wouldn't have cared if the women was rapping or selling Jesus, just don't insult other people because they speak another language.

    5. @liam

      you anecdote doesn't prove anything. here's why:

      the other day i was in the metro in montreal, two people were speaking english, no one tried to stop them. chinese, blacks, all the colours were all on the metro with no problem.

      have i proven anything? no, apart that on this day at that moment there was no problem. just like you did about your adventure in new york.

      plus, comparing to new york is incredibly useless as there is no debate over language there. if the city was divided fifty fifty english spanish, for example, i'm sure we'd see skirmishes on youtube from time to time.

    6. I think the man... I mean women in the video is S.R's brother... I mean sister

    7. Well Student,

      I all I was saying are New Yorkers don't care about different people. The insult in Montreal Metro are frequent and recorded. Why would we see skirmishes, New Yorkers are capable of admitting not everybody speak the same language. The editor brought up New York Subway, so if you think it's useless why are you reading this blog.

    8. Don't get sucked in again Liam - he will never shut up if you respond and please I get so tired of him and his stupid questions. Thank you.

    9. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, February 13, 2013 at 7:08:00 PM EST

      I know that crazy woman.... It's S.R. (separatiste radical) mommy...

    10. Just gonna throw this out there... you can clearly hear many people laughing at her, people telling her to "shut the hell up" just as much as you hear "hey ta gueule calisse". No one likes a bigot, and I commute to and from Montreal 7 days a week on that very line; this isn't in the norm at all!

      Open bigotry on the streets of Montreal is seldomly seen, being the most bilingual of places in Quebec. Most people, both francos and anglos, care little what language is your mother tongue, and are completely content conversing with you in either language (although the francos will appreciate you making an effort to speak in French, even if it's horrid).

    11. I had something similar happen to me in an east end mall last year, and in my defence, all I can say is that, I just went on autopilot and because I’m not someone with ...’sa langue dans sa poche’, the exchange was nasty, not as nasty as what we just witnessed on that video, but nasty enough. Last thing overheard was “now run on FB and tell your friends how a big bad anglo whipped your sorry ass and sent you home crying”. I didn’t see it because I had turned my back by then, but apparently a hand went up flipping me the bird.

      I can honestly tell you that when you are caught in the middle of it, you feel you just cannot back down. At the beginning, the thing I regretted most about that my 15 yr old witnessed it. But really, in situation like that, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Naturally when we spoke about it a few weeks later, she told me that even thought it was awkward, she expected nothing less of me. She is well adjusted to my rather, vocal nature, lol, I think, that in itself, was worthwhile lesson though.

      When it comes to bullies, one should NEVER back down, EVER! In this province, far too often this it is exactly what we have done, backed down and not fought hard enough when it’s come to political bullies. Unfortunately, it weighs on me to admit it, but it has made the minority communities, especially, soft, passive and indifferent. Isn’t that how we got here in the first place?

    12. I remember when I was in french High School in Hull, I was bullied by French because I was an english and I had funny ears. This is quite sad since Hull is federalist region. Anyway, most of my friends were english and they told to NEVER back down. I was happy when I left for English College.

    13. Liam,

      I can really attest to the subway situation. When I am in Montreal metro with my wife and son, we speak English. In a number of times, some people give us dirty looks. Here in Toronto, people in the subway already speak myriad of languages. Surely nobody cares what language others are speaking.

      Of course, an idiot (hope it knows itself) will chime in and say that my life experience means nothing.

    14. @liam

      " I was bullied by French because I was an english and I had funny ears. This is quite sad since Hull is federalist region."

      ah. well i think bullying is sad wherever it happens, mate.

    15. I agree. Our community has been passive for far too long - myself included. We have to start putting these people in their place when we feel our rights as citizens are being trampled. Sitting back and letting them do as they wish has only proven that they will persist in bullying us - make a stand if it happens to you.

    16. "I agree. Our community has been passive for far too long - myself included. We have to start putting these people in their place when we feel our rights as citizens are being trampled"

      Alors,vous serez dans la rue avec votre communauté Dimanche prochain? Ou serez-vous cachée derrière votre clavier è trembler de peur?

  12. Keep saying we have to get rid of these crazies that think they have the right to bully other people. Shocking! Unfortunately, no one told her where to go and I'm afraid I'm at that point now in this province. Someone tries to tell me what language to speak they'd better be ready for the big blow. I may be the next one to go viral - lol

  13. Reason #1: "(...)la volonté de fermer l’hôpital Montfort, le gouvernement canadien laisse les provinces majoritaires anglophones perpétrer un ethnocide en douce des Acadiens et des Franco-Canadiens minoritaires". The PQ attacks the Federal Government when the province of Ontario announces it will shut down an french hospital. Now, take the situation in reverse. Let us say that the Quebec government decides to shut down an English hospital, and the Federal government opposed the decision. The PQ would have been outraged saying that the Feds were not allowed to get involve in provincial affairs.

    1. @liam

      "Let us say that the Quebec government decides to shut down an English hospital, and the Federal government opposed the decision. The PQ would have been outraged saying that the Feds were not allowed to get involve in provincial affairs."

      here's a tip. try an find actual examples instead of inventing hypothetical ones. your arguments would be stronger that way.

    2. Can you just hear Liam? Would be headlines on every paper and newscast throughout quebec for days - damn feds - intervening in provincial business again. Oh so predictable these PQunts.

    3. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, February 13, 2013 at 7:10:00 PM EST


      Please separate from Canada. That should be your focus.

    4. "The PQ attacks the Federal Government when the province of Ontario announces it will shut down a french hospital."

      There were also plans to close two English hospitals in Ottawa along with the Montfort. But the Montfort stayed open and is still operating today. It was even expanded by adding the National Defence Medical Centre to two floors. It serves Francophone Ontarians, military employees and a spillover of Quebecois clients from Gatineau who desire superior medical care in Ontario.

      At least two English hospitals have been closed down in Montreal - The Reddy Memorial and the Queen Elizabeth - and there are plans to completely francise the Lachine Hospital. It's another example of the double standard where the closure of Francophone institutions is called ethnic cleansing but eliminating Anglophone establishments is acceptable because we're supposedly just "colonizers who don't belong in Quebec in the first place."

    5. @durham

      "...we're supposedly just "colonizers who don't belong in Quebec in the first place." "

      who is it that you are quoting mate?

    6. Yes Durham and this is the type of thing that a federalist provincial party should be shouting about over the airwaves and the newspapers but we hear the usual nothing from the liberals. Boy we need a new party to vote for - come on Equality Party - we need a voice and a choice in this stinking place.

    7. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  14. Again Liam - they're "special". The Ottawa and Montfort Hospitals are totally bilingual. Been to both and the public is served in whichever language they speak. Unfortunately the seppies, again, fail the test of fair play. They can't wait to take away English services wherever and whenever possible and if the government can't do it, they send in the greatest bigots of them all - IF and SSJB to lie to service personnel and threaten them with fines and any deceitful nasty, method (such as telling them to be proud to be french) they can think of to get them all to speak french only. Don't know how it co-relates that being able to speak English makes you NOT a proud francophone. I was at the Gatineau Hospital for minor surgery last week and when I asked one of the aids for water, she understood me enough to ask a co-worker to respond to me which required a big "yes" or "no". This is how far we have come in the area of health care - scary situation and uncalled for. We federalists must start fighting back against this attitude of the militant francophones.

    1. Yes, I know Gatineau and Hull Hospital service are definitely unprofessional. Hospital in Quebec side of the border are constantly disease prone (the comment is hilarious) :

      Also, CHEO is also bilingual. Ottawa Paramedics are bilingual having been used to help Urgence Sante on a number of times. Gatineau used to abuse of their service so much that Ottawa had to cap the calls they would to Gatineau IF and SSJB are incompetent idiots who don't understand the issues.

      On a side issue, even OC Transpo (bilingual name for one thing) is working on bilingualism. Now I am not saying the situation is perfect but at least the management and union have a policy to implement french on the OC Transpo. Their is a bilingual Next Stop system. Also, if an OC Transpo attacked a francophone, he'd be fired. Unlike in Gatineau, Ha! If an STO (name isn't bilingual) attacked a anglophone, he'd be promoted.

    2. @liam

      "Also, if an OC Transpo attacked a francophone, he'd be fired. Unlike in Gatineau, Ha! If an STO (name isn't bilingual) attacked a anglophone, he'd be promoted."

      hypothetical. find real examples, mate. just making up stuff will only get you this far.

    3. Yes, CHEO also goes out of their way to assist the parents and children in the language of their choice (French or English). Let's make it very clear AGAIN that the only province that does not have the desire to be helpful to anyone but those of white, pur laine francophone descent, is quebec. Every other province in this country goes out of it's way to help and assist in any way they can, their fellow citizens. When I go anywhere in Ottawa, to the doctors, to the stores, to Petsmart, I go out of my way to ensure that I'm, if anything, extra polite to make up for the ignorance and rudeness that I've seen on the opposite side of the fence. I also want to make sure that I point out, that it is the MINORITY francophones in this province that practice this bigotry, not the majority. The majority of the people are the same as we federalists and can't wait to be helpful but we have more than our fair share of ignoramus's such as YR, SR and student. Far too many as far as I'm concerned and we have to fight to partition this place so they have a small area to call their own and we can ignore them fully and completely until they are fit, if ever, to live in a civilized society.

    4. I have to disagree with you Cutie. Why is OLF still in place? Because Quebeckers want it. Ask most Quebecker in the street, if they support OLF and they will tell yes. Some are even so extreme that they support a ban on english. No speaking english, no service in english even in the West Island. So, you see, no politician could get elected if it supported disbanding the OLF.

    5. Liam, don't you find it interesting that we have to come up with hypotheticals about francophones being attacked, but there are too many attacks on English speakers to be listed in this short space. I don't recall these very real attacks ever being denounced by the resident trolls as being beyond the pale.

    6. I have never heard of one incident of a francophone being attacked for speaking french anywhere in this country. Idiot!

    7. Cutie, who are you calling an idiot?
      I think I said the same thing as you, just without insulting anyone except for the regularly posting yet unhelpful separatists. They put in a lot of work into being trolls here, so I want to recognize their efforts.

      I think it's very disturbing that they are not appalled at physical assaults committed on their community members. Maybe they don't think of the non-pure laine as their neighbours...

    8. @ConfusedInQuebec

      Actually, THEY DON'T think of the non-pur-laine as their neighbours. A friend of mine works for a provincial government agency in Quebec city, during a recent discussion she mentioned that very often, as she goes past cubicles in the office, she can overhear service-à-la-clientèle specifically, putting down the phone and saying..."maudit une autre race".

    9. Wasn't referring to you Confused - was referring to the "student" idiot - sorry if you thought it was you. Not at all. And they don't think of anyone outside their own imagined pur-laine circle as anything but less than them - we have let them feel so superior for so long by not challenging them when they needed to be challenged, that they honestly now believe that they are the "gifted" ones in Canada. There are many lessons to be learned from our actions over the past 40 years and now we have to try to win back what we've lost. We were taken in as badly as they were by our own inaction and we're now paying the price.

    10. @cutie003

      " we have to try to win back what we've lost."

      what have you lost cutie003?

  15. "Les décisions d’Ottawa de concentrer le transport aérien à l’aéroport de Pearson au détriment de celui de Mirabel, l’industrie de l’automobile et celle des services financiers à Toronto, drainant ainsi l’épargne des Canadiens et des Québécois, ont pour effet de réaliser, progressivement, la prévision de l’urbaniste de réputation internationale Jane Jacobs. »

    It is Air Canada (then a private company) and West Jet that decided to focus their operations at Toronto. The automobile company chose to focus their operations in Southern Ontario, this was not a government decision. The financial sector left Montreal after bill 101 imposed by Premier Levesque, a PROVINCIAL leader, not federal. None of those decision was taken by the Federal. Another lie by the PQ.

    1. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, February 13, 2013 at 7:18:00 PM EST

      Yeah..... West Jet is from my city, Calgary. Unlike scummy Air Canada it is totally free from sucking off government money:
      "WestJet is a public company with over 9,000 employees,[5] is non-unionized and is not part of any airline alliance. It operates variants of a single aircraft type, all from the Boeing 737 Next Generation family. The airline has its headquarters and main hub at Calgary International Airport,[6] with another large hub at Toronto Pearson International Airport. WestJet had passenger revenues of $2.6 billion (CAD) in 2010.[5]"

    2. I am interested to know what Michel Patrice's take on that statement that it is Ottawa's decision to concentrate air transportation in Pearson. After all, he (Patrice) quotes Jane Jacobs in his main argument, an argument that I do not find logically sound.

    3. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYThursday, February 14, 2013 at 5:53:00 AM EST

      Montreal would be soon Canada's 4th busiest airportc(both passengers and aircrafts) after Calgary:

    4. Hi Troy,

      No, I don't believe that there was a federal conspiracy to concentrate air transportation in Pearson to hurt Montreal.

      Air transportation concentration in Toronto did not cause the decline of Montreal. More likely, the decline of Montreal (or the growth of Toronto...) caused the concentration of air transportation in Toronto (which is your point I guess).

      (Of course, the way the two governments struggled over Mirabel did not help Mirabel in any way. (It is a sad but interesting story.))

      About this, Jane Jacobs's theory would be something like this : the growth of Toronto concentrated air traffic in Toronto, then the concentration of air traffic in Toronto fueld the growth of Toronto, which favored a greater concentration of air traffic in Toronto which... well, you get the picture.

      (You know, Cities and the Wealth of Nations can be read in about 3 hours, you might find it interesting.)

  16. Reason 44: "(..)dans le transport par train entre Boston et New York qu’une amélioration s’impose.(...)" This is the stupidest by far. Boston and New York are in the United States. If the americans are not willing to pay, why should they? How will this be better in independant Quebec? Why would Canada pay for a train located primarily in the United States.

    1. Regarding rail transportation, when the news about the decline of Trudeau compared to Pearson, someone also wrote a column on Le Devoir blaming the Fed of not providing high-speed train to Mirabel.

      The curious part is that the Federal government owns VIA Rail as an inter-provincial transport medium. There is nothing, really nothing stops a province to build its own intra-provincial train network and to provide rolling stocks.

      Therefore, if Quebec wishes to build a 350 km/h line serving Gatineau - Montreal - Sherbrooke - Quebec City - Gaspe, what is stopping them? After all, some of the rolling stocks of Chinese HSR are Bombardier. What is good of having Bombardier headquartered in Quebec if it can not provide the rolling stocks?

      As well, what stopped the province of building 430 km/h maglev between downtown Montreal and Mirabel if it could have mitigated the airline migration to Pearson?

  17. Again Liam, another form of brainwashing. Maybe I should have worded it differently. The average francophone that I have spoken to has never been rude to me even though I was speaking English. The debate about the language police is a different matter - Miss Piggy and IF, SSJB, Vigile Net, all these organizations, tell them these people are needed to "protect" their language against the big, bad anglo, but the average francophone does not give this thought until you ask the question; thereby eliciting the "expected" response that they have been taught is a "need". At the Gatineau hospital in the waiting room I was the only anglophone and there were at least 6 other people there all speaking french and when they asked me a question, I admitted that I do not speak french and all but one (and you could tell by the look on his face that he was involved with one of those militant organizations) were polite and started speaking to me in english without a second thought - just because they are the nice bilingual francophones that I have the pleasure to call friends and neighbours. Those are the ones I'm proud of - they don't think they are better than I am because they speak french - just plain Canadians that live, work and try to enjoy life like the rest of us rather than looking for problems where there are none.

    1. I have to agree with you. Miss Piggy, IF SSJB, Vigile and I could add Le Devoir, have a negative effect on the media. This is why we need Partition Party, to counter the threat. The threat of Montreal and Gatineau leaving, and possibly Sherbrooke leaving should scare a lot of quebecers into perhaps allowing some leeway. With both those cities gone, only Laval and Quebec City will remain as important employment centres.

      Equality Party won't go far enough and won't hold enough threat to actually improve the lives of quebeckers.

    2. Not if we don't give them a chance - It's obvious we will have no choice if we are federalist. The liberals are ineffective and don't give a shit about being part of Canada or they would say so in a much more forceful manner than they do now. Sad state of affairs.

  18. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, February 13, 2013 at 7:38:00 PM EST

    Quebec is going down: Conseil québécois du commerce de détail...

  19. PQ might be a minority of lunatics and delusionals but they cannot be ignored because they now have decision and taxation power. And they are busy diverting all that money in their pockets now. Their mistakes now affect us all.

  20. Quebec incomptence

    "Yet the Marois government will have to do a hell of a selling job. Because if recent history proves anything, that minority is what freezes energy development in Quebec – be it winter or summer." The Premier needs to get a backbone. Premier we need the money and Gaspesie needs the jobs. Might as well not drive her cars, heat our houses.

  21. « …afin que les Québécois puissent voir à quoi ressemble les vrais racistes,ceux qui méprisent notre "joual" et menacent réellement notre nation »

    Tu te sens blessé par ce qu’il dit? Too bad, désolée mais c’est la vérité d’ailleurs, je commence à y croire moi-même.

    ET tu es une province, pas une nation.

  22. Well, editor, the concept of the regulation of newspaper is deeply troubling. This is basically saying only anglophones will be allowed to read english newspaper, english TV, english books, and english movies. Why not ban english media? I for one do not really like french media, sorry to say. I always preferred english over french, even though my mother tongue is french.

    1. I read everthing, french and english newspapers, and listen to both French and English TV News, very different spins on how they convey the news, but I am sure everyone knows this already.

    2. @liam

      "I always preferred english over french, even though my mother tongue is french."

      how far are you in your assimilation process? eighty per cent? ninety?

    3. @liam

      here you write:

      "...even though my mother tongue is french."

      and earlier you wrote:

      "...I was bullied by French because I was an english."

      what's up, mate?

    4. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYThursday, February 14, 2013 at 5:59:00 AM EST


      Please focus your energies to become free from Canada. You are not productive here. Please separate now.

    5. Bien vu student,bon sens de l'observation...MDR!
      Drôlement pathétique...C'est possible?

    6. Le "brainwash" de mister Gratton de calgary est pratiquement complété,l'assimilation est maintenant à 92.34%,après avoir angliciser son nom,la prochaine étape sera de ne plus reconnaître ses propres parents.Une greffe de cerveau n'aurait pas été aussi efficace.

    7. There you have it, even when it’s the “right messenger”, he’s been tampered and he’s converted and so lacks complete credibility. Ya just can’t win!

    8. @ S.R & student

      I have a few questions.
      1; What is the formula for telling what percentage you have been assimilated?

      2: Are you White French Canadian Roman Catholic with ancestors dating back to the first settlers or are you assimilated, if so to what percentage ?

    9. S.R. I'd direct you to cross-cultural psychological research to show that one can maintain their heritage culture as well as adopting another culture without becoming assimilated, but I seriously doubt you're interested in science or research.

    10. "but I seriously doubt you're interested in science or research."

      Recherches réalisées en Louisiane je suppose.

    11. @jmic75

      "I'd direct you to cross-cultural psychological research..."

      i'm ready. direct me, mate.

    12. @white african canadian

      1. i don't know the formula. i was looking for un gars's own perception of his assimilation level. he can use the formula he prefers.

      2. i'm a student. that's all you need to know.

    13. Modern acculturation research has supported the idea of bidimensional models of acculturation rather than unidimensional models, which lost favor way back in the 50's. Essentially a bicultural model has 2 dimensions, "heritage culture" and "mainstream culture" a person can either be high or low on either of these which results in four different forms of acculturation.

      1. Integration (maintaining heritage culture while also accepting the mainstream); 2. segregation (rejecting the mainstream culture and only engaging with the heritage culture.); 3. Assimilation ( accepting the mainstream while losing ones heritage) and 4. Marginalization (rejecting both cultures).

      This is in contrast to the old theories wherein you could only have one culture and accepting aspects of a new one meant losing the old one, which in hindsight makes about as much sense as learning a second language will make you forget your first language (though apparently some politicians in this province still believe that for some reason).

      If you can get your hands on:

      Ryder, A. G., Alden, L. E., & Paulhus, D. L. (2000). Is acculturation unidimensional or bidimensional? A head-to-head comparison in the prediction of personality, self-identity, and adjustment. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 79(1), 49-65.


      Berry, J. W. (1997). Immigration, acculturation, and adaptation. Applied Psychology: An International Review/Psychologie Appliquee: Revue Internationale, 46(1), 5-34.

      They are both great papers that support the bicultural model with empirical evidence from Canada (Ryder is more stats heavy so Berry might be an easier read), really any of Berry's work on the subject would be a good read. Rhyder works at Concordia and Berry is at Queens.

      This paper actually has a cluster analysis of the 4 types and found almost non existent levels of assimilation or marginalization (though this could have been due to the unique sample)

      Of course which acculturation type will change from person to person and is dependent on a number of things including personal factors and the host country, though as Canada has a multicultural ideology it would promote integration rather than assimilation (which would be more common in the states).

      In any event the idea of someone losing their heritage culture just because they move somewhere else or accept the mainstream culture as well is completely bunk ramblings of Lionel Groux and SR needs to get with the times.

    14. They all have the PhD in bunk if you ask me.

  23. FROM ED
    Last night at 3 am, I awakened un able to reath. Urgence Sante took me tothe Verdun general Hospital. The technician that did the med work was fluent in english and I didn't have to ask him to speak it. The driver apologized for having only a little english and we chatted amicably in half and half. Every nurse and doctor spoke to me in perfect english without me having to ask. They were wonderful to me and sent me home in a condition ready to take on a dozen seps. If I had been in the metro car where the woman was ranting, I would have sung O Canada right thru to the end. Ed

    1. Mr. Brown,

      Here wish you well and in good health.

    2. Great to have u back ED, glad you're ok.

  24. The french press is just another arm of the separatist movement. The PQ has a revolving door open for left wing media types.

    The PQ needs to start to refocus the population with anti english nonsense. Anti development, anti business, anti oil, anti car etc. The quebec public laps it up. 40% of them work for the govt anyway. Anti french gets the best reaction and emotional feelings going.

    Multiple studies have shown that the more emotional you can get somebody feeling it seriously inhibits logical thinking.

    The order of nonsense coming up will first be anti english followed by the seperation strategy after.

    They need to prepare the mind of the public to be as receptive as possible to faulty logic and illusions in the separation strategy.

    The other good part is it's all a lot of noise that lets Quebec Inc, politicians and the mafia can get back to fleecing the population. You need to think about how sales are down for many Quebec companies right now. Sales are way down with all this attention to purchasing in the govt.

    All the parties can get behind that.

  25. FROM ED
    I entered a post at 10:58, it disappeared from the blog but landed on Atoms. Did I do something wrong?.

  26. It's very important that Quebec start to be shown as a separate entity in indexes like this.

    It's not fair to the rest of Canada or to Quebec to make them the same color.

    Lets just lets the results speak for themselves after that..

    1. separatists will agree with you anonymous. actually they want quebec to be separate on all indexes.

    2. At least we can agree that Quebec should show up on the map as the dark brown stain it reallyis.

    3. @anonymous

      why the insult? are you really that kind of contributor?

    4. Annoy a separatist, use fact and logic.

      I'm the kind of contributor that would like to see the ambulance technician that refused to speak English to the parent of the sick child charged with "endangering the life of a child".

      I'm also happy to tell you that in the 5 companies I have started in Quebec in the last 15 years I've NEVER SPOKEN FRENCH at work. I also certainly would never hire a "red square" student.

      It's never a risk tho. No company except the govt would ever hire a "quebec studies major" or any of the donzens of other uselfess degrees that get pumped out.

      I'll gladly support free education if it's in things we need like engineering, physics, computers, medicine etc.

      Instead the French universities produce a steady stream of professional protestors and victims with worthless degree's.

      Ever day I violate Bill 101 is good day.

      So to answer your question. Yes, I am that type of contributor!

    5. "donzens of other uselfess"

      wtf mate?

    6. Charest is living it up now! :)

    7. And even Anarchopanda realizes he's been had by the PQ! :)

  27. There's really only one reason to become a nation: and that is that you truly feel that "your people" constitute a nation and that the boundaries of an independent nation are the only way to reflect that.

    As long as the PQ continues the type of propaganda as this "92 reasons" stuff, they really won't ever get sovereignty.

    They should try honesty; just say "we want to have our own country and it will cost a lot financially and emotionally to do it, but we believe it is worth the cost."

  28. Aside from that nut-bar on the Metro, here is the news article of the Vermont story on Quebec:

  29. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYThursday, February 14, 2013 at 6:03:00 AM EST

    Two reasons why Montreal`s airports in decline:
    1. Mirabel's traffic decreased due to the advent in the 1980s of longer-range jets that did not need to refuel in Montreal before crossing the Atlantic Ocean.
    2. Montreal's economic decline in the late 1970s and 1980s had a significant effect on the airport's traffic, as international flights shifted away from Dorval to Toronto Pearson, which serves the larger urban centre of Toronto.

    However reason 2 implies an indirect but very clear responsibility by the separatists...
    Nothing to do with Ottawa.

  30. Was it on purpose because this is what they ultimately wanted, and are too gutless to do the heavy lifting themselves... OR...are they really this sloppy and incompetent? One has to ask.

    1. The are so used to dealing in doublespeak. redefining "strike as boycott". Progress as something good etc.

      It's hard for them remember up and down for themselves when they need to confuse the population constantly.

      IE: They can;t remember what is lies and doublespeak anymore because that's all there is now.

  31. Ed, please look away, this isn’t pretty.

    In today’s The Gazette, link provided below:

    “...And Bachand evaded a question on a proposal by the Charest government to weaken the protection in the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms against linguistic discrimination. The proposal, contained in a bill on access to English schools, wasn’t adopted. But the simple fact that it was presented showed that the Liberals were prepared to sacrifice the protection of linguistic minorities if necessary to appease nationalists. And the precedent they created has made it politically easier for the current Parti Québécois government to propose similar changes to the Quebec rights charter in its own language legislation, Bill 14.”

    So really, with friends like these!!!!
    In MacPherson’s opinion piece, Bachand is said to compare the rapport between the Anglo community and the Liberals to that of a husband and wife. One can construe that the wife (US)is a stay-at-home housewife who basically serves as the maid. She contributes, but ultimately, the husband perceives her as having little value. The honeymoon was over long ago.

    Honestly, when I read things like this, it just proves over and over again, how little difference there is between Liberals and the PQ. They are slightly different faces of the same coin ...and are they even that? Obviously, there is not one provincial political party right now, that truly backs Federalism in Quebec, not with their policies anyway, which is where it counts.

    I refuse to believe Federalism is dead here. Hope is the last to die. Bring on The Equality Party 2.0!

    1. FROM ED
      Thank you for being considerate of my feelings and thanks also to those who wished me well. It turns out that it was a temporary lung collapse and I am back to my old liberal lovin' self so please don't misalign my hero Jean Charest.
      Seriously Anec, I can see Mr. Bachand evading the question. He is in a campaign and doesn't need the aggravation.
      Mac Pherson should know better than to pin a man's ears to the wall when he is deperately competing. The bill was not adopted, what more do we need.
      I am content to wait for the Liberal leader to be chosen and I will go by what he says, then perhaps I might join Complicated and the CAQ. I may support the E.Q. but so far I hear nothing but talk. does it actually exist or just a dream in some ones minds.
      I consider a party gaining importance when I see articles about them in th media. So far the E.Q. people have been as silent as their old party was. Say nothing, do nothing. Time will tell. Ed

    2. Please Ed - none of them have even said which end is up when it comes to re-establishing rights and freedoms in this province and as far as I'm concerned, they might just as well be another separatist party. NOW during the leadership convention, is when they should be putting their cards on the table, not kissing the asses of the separatists which is what they're doing. We have no party we can count on in this stinking place - disgusting in a supposedly democratic society. Come Equality Party!

  32. FROM ED
    Cutie and Liam,
    You speak so casually about partition I wonder if you have thought it through. When countries divide , by the time the United Nations, the World court and the Mother Country get through deciding what's legal and permissable the people involved have little say as to the outcome. Countries are not divided into patchwork quilts as you seem to suggest but are normally separated by a straight line drawn across the land, leaving many people on the wrong side who can't afford to move. This leaves the problem unsettled sometimes for eternity.
    There is nearly always violence, usually by the people trying to relocate and the others trying to kick them out in a hurry. This was the case in India where a million people died to please Gandhi's racist desires. In ireland 'the troubles' still linger over certain counties where children have learned to hate each other living on the same block. Dividing Korea settled nothing, South Koreans live in fear of a militaristic basketcase that claims they belong to him. North Koreans live in hell. Cypress is only a little island, but has required a Canadian and U.N. troop prescence to keep Greeks and Turks from killing each other.
    None of the new nations came out as a shining star of affluence. It is only the U.S. prescence in South Korea that makes them live well. Ireland has only recently come up in the economy chain and even that is tenuous. India borrows money to build atomic weapons while her people starve. "Yeah, they are much better off."
    If Quebec separatists acquired any kind of a country, we know they would immediately want to arm it. So we would have an armed nation of nuts as our neighbours. The SSJB would have a blank cheque to persecute Federalists on the wrong side of the line,
    seps among the Feds on the canadian side would go on bitching, annoying and causing trouble. They won't stop because they are in someone else's country. They are in some one else's country now and they never let up.
    I suggest you beware of what you are asking for, you might get it. Ed

    1. "They are in some one else's country now and they never let up."

      ah? separatists are not in their country in canada? well this kinda justifies their position, now doesn't it ed?

  33. What you are saying is probably true Ed but there is a difference in that there will be just as much, probably more, trouble if quebec separates as a whole with a 50+1 majority. If areas such as Montreal, Outaouais and the Pontiac decide by either municipality or federal districts, democracy is what should prevail and for sure the citizens of quebec keep saying that democracy is what's important. Just because quebec enacted a law saying that provincial boarders are inviolate does not mean that the law is a just law if it takes away our democratic rights to remain part of Canada. They are always enacting laws that are not in accordance with the Canadian Constitution but that doesn't make it right or just. I have thought it over - many times. The way that you are talking is as if there will be no problems if the whole province is forced to eat this with a 50+1 vote.
    The following is a response I had given to YR with his nonsense and I say that quebec makes up it's own rules as it goes along with the idea that by the time these things go through the courts, everyone believes them. We have as much right to decide our own future as they do theirs, probably more.
    "LOL - and you think the partition of a country isn't going to create many problems. Boy you people have some nerve:
    The presence of a French-language ethnic group is not based on legitimacy, since they lost the war (and you can't change history) that determined their fate and they were provided much more land than they occupied at that time in order to become a part of the new Country of Canada. The province of quebec is just that and that only: a province within a country.
    1. Should the province of quebec separate from Canada and we win the civil war that will take place, then the land is ours once again by default and military might.
    2. Should the separatists win the civil war that will take place, then we will demand that our area(s) separate from quebec as we are (and definitely will be) an oppressed society within the country of quebec and as we have a heritage back to the battle of the Plains of Abraham, the international community will look upon that favourably.
    Following our win of a referendum based on 50+1 to secede from the new country of quebec, we will be the newly independent territory and recognized by the international community with borders established at the time of the referendums. We will then request Canada to give us a new status as a Province within the country of Canada. Our right to secede from quebec is as legitimate as the separatists' right to secede from Canada and all I'm trying to do by promoting partition is eliminate Steps 1 and 2."
    Still don't get it that these people think they can take all the land and buildings and abscond with our territory to a new country without there being a democratic effort to be made to keep areas that want to be part of Canada within our own jurisdiction with democratic voting.
    Why does everyone accept that there will be peace and harmony here should they take us out of our country - Doesn't everyone agree there will be much more trouble by trying to take the whole province with 49% of not willing to go? Many more citizens will be left to fight this out with their solution than with mine!

  34. FROM ED
    "The way that you are talking is as if there will be no problems if the whole province is forced to eat this with a 50+1 vote.
    The following is a response I had given to YR with his nonsense and I say that quebec makes up it's own rules as it goes along with the idea that by the time these things go through the courts, everyone believes them. We have as much right to decide our own future as they do theirs, probably more.
    "LOL - and you think the partition of a country isn't going to create many problems. Boy you people have some nerve."
    Cutie, I don't know what planet you're on and I don't know whose post you read but it certainly wasn't mine. I never mentioned a 50+1 solution or anything near that.
    "1. Should the province of quebec separate from Canada and we win the civil war that will take place, then the land is ours once again by default and military might. "
    CUTIE, IN WARS PEOPLE DIE. Your friends and neighbours. Innocent Children. When Joan of Ark led her people with the Lord's trumpet in her pocket, people died. What gandhi referred to as peaceful protest bcame mass murder for which he was directly responsible. he had to have his dream of a free India but the British were getting out anyway. They were fed up with India and were only staying on to keep Indians free from the Japanese. If ganhi had been patient a million souls might have lived. You sound like Madame Defarge. You know how vehement the average sep is even in public. The FLQ would be back in business. You probably would be safe in your English enclave but consider others who right now are living in peace and have enough patience to wait until the spring, Until the Liberals, the only ones that have declared themselves a federalist party get organized. Ed

    1. Yes, people will die. But they are dying for a cause they believe in. The Indians were dying for a free India. Death has never stopped anybody because if you think the cause is right, people will die. If the FLQ rearms, I am sure people will die, but they will die for Canada. If the FLQ insist on attacking english, their will be violence.

      Now I say that but I do not want to see people die. I have told the PQ to tone down their rhetoric but they thrive on it. They are unwilling to soften their position.

    2. Of course I don't want anyone to die but if groups like the FLQ start up again there will be retaliation from the english which will create groups just like the FLQ both believing in their cause - anyone with any foresight can see this is what will happen. I'm am saying there will be less people involved if we democratically partition the province based on either municipalities or federal districts. People would accept separation from their country much more easily if they personally have a say in what their area of quebec votes. I know there are areas where people will be caught in an untenable position but, as I've said before, perhaps as friends and neighbours and responsible government, we can make arrangements for these displaced people to move to another area in line with their desire.
      Tony and Liam: I agree with Liam - the NDP have screwed themselves royally with their stupid 50+1 stance - not in Quebec but elsewhere in the country.

    3. FROM ED
      Cutie and Liam,
      You sound like a couple of kids playing war games. Do you really think the Canadian Govenment will declare war on it's citizens. Believe it or not separatists are human beings and citizens.
      Liam,You don't knowwhat you're talking about. If you're going to play hardball state facts, not what you think happened. Indian's did not die fighting for freedom. The British had already agreed to leave as soon as the japanese were defeated.
      Jinnah and Nehru had agreed to the changes, but Gandhi went on working the people up to a frenzy making them feel like the Sihks and Muslims were their sworn enemy. Gandhi was not trying o get the British out. It was the Sihks and Muslims he hated. The people that Hindus murdered were mostly Muslims that were not fast enough getting out of the country.
      Anyway there wil be no war here. Do you really think the Americans will allow a civil war on their doorstep. Next month the liberals will get their act together and start campaigning to get rid of the PQ. It will be done by the voters after the federalists force an election. The PQ will go down in history as a bad memory.
      The Liberal government will bring about a standard of living that we can be at one with.
      That will happen unless you fuck it up with the E.Q. splitting the vote. Ed

    4. Geez Ed - We're talking about a peaceful way out of this mess and you're talking about another 4 year term with a government that will just keep on picking away at our freedoms for Christ's sake. I will not vote for them again unless there is no other choice. Do you not listen to them? None of them give a sweet fuck about the ethnic cleansing that is taking place everyday in this place and you still stand up for them. If the Equality Party can get the paperwork done in time for the next election, I will be voting for them - I am going to join every organization and help anyone I can to get our rights and freedoms back and the liberals are not in the picture for that at all.
      Besides who says that the government will turn the armed forces on it's own citizens? If quebec leaves confederation, they are no longer Canadian citizens but we federalists have to be protected from these FLQ types and who is expected to do this if not our Canadian Armed Forces? Jesus, I pay federal taxes too and I pay for them to protect innocents all over the world and if this mess unfolds here, that is part of their role as Canadians protecting Canadians. You are in the worse form of denial I have ever seen when it comes to the situation we are in at the present time. You refuse to believe that the liberals are really not federalists (even though they never talk about confederation) and you can't see what we are facing against these hard nosed separatists that believe that they can rob us of our country, our jobs, our security and more without their being outright violence.

    5. I agree with Liam - the NDP have screwed themselves royally with their stupid 50+1 stance - not in Quebec but elsewhere in the country.

      Did you know the NDP requires a 2/3 majority to modify its own constitution? Yet it's claiming that 50%+1 is sufficient to break up the country. Hypocrites.

  35. Ed - what I'm saying is exactly what will happen if we are forced to separate the country. Do you honestly believe that there will not be civil war if the separatists take the province out with a 50+1 vote? You think that won't happen? What are you saying? That they are bluffing? Did you think Parizeau was bluffing when he said he would have taken Canada out of confederation the next day? Of course in war people die. Everyone knows that except the separatists. How do we avoid civil war in this instance? Do you think people will accept this without a fight? I don't believe that for one minute.

    1. @cutie003

      check out pages 20 and 22 of this pole:

      70% of quebec population would expect canada to support quebec's bid at the un, after a referendum win. on a poll that gives support for sovereignty at 45%. so make it 75% when support for sovereignty is at 50%, which is quite close to all french canadians.

      it shows that french canadians are more attached to democracy then they are to canada. and it also shows the opposition you will face when you start your civil war thing.

    2. Forgive me everyone - student you're an idiot if you think Canada will support quebec in anything it does after what this province has put the ROC through. If you're really for democracy, then partition this place and we'll agree at least on one thing. That will be true democracy and I will not have some ass in the backwoods of quebec deciding my future for me. After this I intend to go back to ignoring you as usual but don't you bet that we're all so pacifist that we won't fight back against your ongoing oppression of our community.

    3. Je suppose que vous représentez tous nos amis canadiens cutie.Nos deux pays ont avantages à s'entraider.

    4. I think page 14 is quite interesting, 77% of Quebecers believe that bilingual services should be offered across the country regardless of the size of the minority population for federal services (which is a statistically significant finding).

      I hope the same goes for provincial services...I mean we wouldn't want to be hypocrites.

      Only 28% of Quebecers think that Quebec would do better as a separate country, 21% think it will remain the same and 43% think it'll do worse. (page 21)Which is odd because the study found that 45% support separation, which means that 45-28= 17% of separatists think that if separation happens nothing will change, or Quebec will get worse, or they don't know.

      If you don't think separation would help Quebec, why would you want it? Seems illogical.

    5. @cutie003

      "student you're an idiot if you think Canada will support quebec..."

      i never wrote that. what is obvious is that at least 75% of quebec population, or all french canadians, will expect canada to support quebec's sovereignty. that's the opposition you'll face when you beg for the opposite.

      "I will not have some ass in the backwoods of quebec deciding my future for me."

      ah! you do know how separatists feel, then? why are you so furious about them when you think exactly the same?!?

    6. Student you can't predict that Quebec UN support will go from 70%-75% if another variable increases as you only have one data point, you can't even make a very weak linear function without at least 2 data points. At this point you can't even say the two variables are correlated, let alone one causes the other one.

    7. @jmic75

      "Student you can't predict that Quebec UN support will go from 70%-75%"

      i still my assumptions are safe, mate.

  36. Cutie003 writes:

    "Do you honestly believe that there will not be civil war if the separatists take the province out with a 50+1 vote?"

    One of the things that will make that an even greater probability is if the unilateral separation by Quebec occurs after the NDP gets elected to a majority government in Ottawa. Their policy is not only that they will recognize a 50% plus one vote but that they won't do anything to stop it. Here is their official policy regarding this (from page 8 of their Sherbrooke Declaration):

    "According to its values, the NDP rejects also any use of -- or threat of -- force against Quebec at any stage. Our vision is one of trust toward democracy, good faith and values of peace."

    So, when the rule of law is not upheld by the powers that be (ie, an NDP government in Ottawa), it will be left up to the people to take matters into their own hands. And that's why Cutie003's belief that there will be a civil war is entirely plausible.

    1. The NDP won't ge elected. Canada is a two-party system between the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party. Now, people say Unite the Left, but their is a fundamental difference between the Liberal and the NDP.

      Also, with the 50% + 1 support, the NDP has alienated many in Canada.

    2. And Ed it's not me or you that's saying they will leave with a 50+1 vote - it's the separatists that insist this is all it will take even with the rule of law from the Supreme Court saying it will have to be more (undefined). Again, they flout the law. When does this stop? They make the rules on everything and no one stands up to them. Disgraceful.

    3. Liam writes:

      "Also, with the 50% + 1 support, the NDP has alienated many in Canada."

      I think this is quite true. I know that my local NDP MP here in Vancouver is feeling the brunt of this from constituents.

      The NDP caucus has never in its history had to deal with 50% of its members being from Quebec; it's something new for them. And despite having a perfectly bilingual leader from Quebec, the "two solitudes" experience is something new for them. And with a proto-nationalist group of MPs from Quebec, I can assure you that this is being felt in the caucus. I truly believe that this thing will come to a head and many of the 50 NDP MPs will end up joining the Bloc before this mandate is over.


      I myself have no problem with the 50% plus one rule (indeed, if I have my druthers, I would make the standard 40% plus one to make it that much easier for Quebec to leave). What offends me is the NDP's eagerness to flout the Secession Reference rules set out by the Supreme Court, their eagerness to suck up to Quebec nationalist sentiment (indeed, they are going out of their way to do so), and their "no force" policy in the Sherbrooke Declaration. My God, haven't they learned anything from history? Did they not remember how Mulroney's majority government was reduced to just a few elected MPs when Kim Campbell ran after Mulroney botched everything with Meech Lake and HIS sucking up to Quebec nationalism? Now, I can't say that was the ONLY reason that the lost so badly but I suspect it was the main one. Canadians outside Quebec don't much like politicians sucking up to Quebec...and even socialists won't like it. Mulcair is playing with electoral fire by doing what he is doing.

    4. I don't think Muclair cares, his hidden agenda is Me, Myself and I

    5. I doubt very much if the NDP will ever be elected. The NDP are basically the Federal version of the Parti Québécois. Personally I have doubts about the loyalty to Canada of the NDP members both inside and outside Quebec.

  37. We have far too many politicians that are ME, ME, ME. I think most of them start out trying to be honest and end up taking it on as just another job and their only purpose is to get elected again.
    Anyway, back to the 50+1 and people thinking this will not result in violence. Imagine the day after the 1995 referendum and the federalists living in my area of quebec get up and realize that seppies from Abitibi, for instance, swayed the vote to a win for separation and Parizeau and company pulled quebec out of Canada. Thousands of my friends and neighbours work for the Federal Government in Ottawa and they get into their cars and find they get to work and they have no job and no money to support their families nor pay their mortgage or car payment. Surveys have shown that most people are only 3 paychecks away from bankrupty anyway. All of a sudden we have no access to our doctors and hospitals in Ottawa, my health care insurance from my company that covers my prescription medication (very expensive by the way) is not available to quebec residents any longer and probably within a week the bridges that we use to get to Ottawa are now closed borders manned by the Surete. People that rent here would leave immediately and who can blame them; people who have not invested much in their homes leave without a problem but there are thousands and thousands of us who have too much invested here to just walk away and start all over from scratch. If you can't see that this will result in violence with thousands of people forced out of work, there's something missing in your history lessons. People won't stand for it - you can bet on that. That's why I keep saying that partition is the only way out. This area would be a ghost town without the federal government jobs and if you can't see what that does to a community you have no vision. I would be hearing how "we will get even for what they've done to us" all over the place. The parade that would take place down Rue Principal in every area of the Outaouais would be another spike in the head of the federalists and believe me, there will be lots of violence if not outright civil war. At least with partition, some areas would get exactly what they voted for not and what the people in Abitibi voted for.

  38. “Bribes are a phenomenon that exists and it’s useless to deny the existence of these necessary situations when you are negotiating with third world countries and regimes,” Mr Berlusconi

    There is only one province in canada that fits this descriptions.

    The PQ are children. They arn;t even capable of recognizing their own mistakes.

    Everything is somebody else fault.

    They live in a world of reacting to exernal events and driving nothing themself.

    1. The flip-flopping geniuses at the PQ were at it again:

      PQ votes against itself by accident in National Assembly

  39. FROM ED
    Ah Cutie, You're imagination goes way overboard. How are the PQ supposed to win a referendum with only 30% support. It's not going to happen. Stop worrying about it. Ed

    1. Cutie, please calm down - there will ne no referendum, no yes vote, and no separation from Canada. Even if there were a referendum and a yes vote, there still would be no separation because there is no structure in place to do so, and Quebec would be bankrupt the followng day (Even Marois knows this).

      Personally, I would vote yes to partition Montreal and Western Quebec immediately, but we're not there yet. Now let's change the tone of this conversation and treat the separatist movement the way it should be - as a complete joke - and focus on amusing ourselves at riduculing them.

    2. @ Cutie,

      Believe it or not, some seppies think they will still be able to work for the Canadian federal government after QC separation, and to keep their equalization payments and 50% guaranteed access to the Canadian dairy market. And also keep their Canadian passports, have dual citizenship, and use the Canadian dollar. They're delusional as hell!

    3. OMG just imagine if there would be an all out REAL movement to really do that, partiion Montreal and the like. Distance Montreal especially, from the BS, allow it get its 'Second Wind' so to speak, it could still be...a Contender!?!

      "So,this ethnically induced collective psychosis here is unbeatable as it is inbred and spread stealthily. According to all authorities the only solution, as in any epidemic, is isolate the diseased from general population.
      And avoid all contact"

      We must admit, these words are haunting!

    4. Some believe Quebec and Canada will have a special parliament with Quebec having 25% percent guaranteed representation. They also believe that a special council will be formed with the Quebec member having a veto on any decision taken. (; section: Joint Institution) Some believe they will still be able to go to Ontario for health care.

      Next referendum quebecers have to understand a yes vote means sovereignty, no political association, no "sovereign-associated", no equalization, no transfer, no health care agreement.

    5. Indeed, DON'T pass GO, DON'T collect $200.00!

    6. FROM ED
      Cutie, Please read the post from MTL 1973 above. he's got it right and while you're at it read my posts correctly this time. You accuse me of saying I'm OK with PQ for four more years. In the post you quote I said that the PQ will be going out in a couple of months. You imagine things that are far fetched and then convince yourself that they are real. Why do yu go on about the 50+1 bullshit. Only Mulcair and you are talking about it. Nobody else believes that canadians would allow such nonsense so stop getting yourself worried for nothing. i am not in denial love but I don't believe in myths. Ed

    7. @ed

      "How are the PQ supposed to win a referendum with only 30% support..."

      latest polls show 38-39% support. why do you use 30% to make your argument?

      "i am not in denial..."

      seems you are.

    8. AnceTOTE - There is a movement and I think it's called "The New Province of Montreal" on Facebook. Don't know how well organized or how many but you can check it out.

  40. PQ votes against itself

    Only PQ could do such a thing.

  41. Ed I never said you were OK with the PQ for another 4 years - you are obviously going to try to convince everyone to vote liberal again and I'm saying they are no better than the PQ as they do not protect the federalists from the bigotry practiced by the PQ. Anyone reading this blog knows you are a died-in-the wool liberal and there is no convincing you otherwise. I said I'm voting for the Equality Party if they can get their paperwork and platform ready in time for the next election.
    I'm going to once more try to make you understand that I'm only saying what the outcome of a 50+1 vote for separation could POSSIBLY RESULT IN if the separatists insist on pulling Canada out of confederation. IT IS NOT ME OR YOU THAT ARE SAYING 50+1 - IT IS NOT JUST THE NDP - IT IS THE SEPARATISTS THEMSELVES THAT SAY THIS INCLUDING THE BLOC who will gain a lot of NDP seats come the next federal election. FOR THE LAST TIME I AM NOT SAYING THIS WILL HAPPEN - I'M ONLY POINTING OUT THE VERY REAL POSSIBILITIES AND RAMIFICATIONS OF THE SEPARATISTS MAKING THIS CHOICE FOR ALL OF QUEBEC WHEN HALF THE PROVINCE IS NOT IN THE LEAST INTERESTED IN SEPARATING FROM CANADA. IT IS ALL HYPOTHETICAL. Again, if it should happen, I am suggesting partition to involve less people in the disruption of their lives for Christ's sake. I hope this is clear - POSSIBLE OUTCOME OF A 50+1 VOTE.

  42. Exactly Liam - that's why the Clarity Act says the question must be clear. The citizens of quebec must be made aware (and by whom is the next question (the liberals sure aren't up to the task)) that if they leave Canada there are no more "specials" for them. I know that at least 50% of the separatists believe they can just go on the way they do now, have their jobs in the federal government e.g., just more power and more control over their money that they can keep from the federal government. Dreamland but they believe it because the politicians haven't told them differently. We need the truth to be told by, possibly, a federal government politician, and it should be well publicized or they will just keep on with this continued fantasy that all will be the same but better. I remember standing in line to vote during the last referendum and a lady behind me said she was voting yes because she works in a car lot here in Hull and people could go to Ottawa to buy their cars cheaper because of sales tax and she was losing business to Ottawa because of this. This is the low-level thinking of some of these people where she should have gone after the province to lower the sales tax to match Ontario's. We're thinking about breaking up a country based on voters like these - Sick.

  43. Ed: When I made the following statement I was talking about the liberals not the PQ - don't know why you would think otherwise.
    "Geez Ed - We're talking about a peaceful way out of this mess and you're talking about another 4 year term with a government that will just keep on picking away at our freedoms for Christ's sake. I will not vote for them again unless there is no other choice."
    Tell me where I said that you said the PQ will be out in a couple of months please. I can't find it.
    Again, everything I've said about the separatists pulling out of confederation with a 50+1 vote will happen but you say it's far-fetched - THAT IS NOT SO - you are very aware that these polls can turn around overnight with the crazies and a referendum can be called just as quickly. It may stand at 35% or so and then the feds refuse to turn over the EI responsibility and these nuts get fired up and it climbs because they're insulted again and ends up to be 47% in one day. That's when the witch decides to call a referendum and none of us are at all prepared because we don't talk about the consequences that will follow. When are federalists going to smarten up and start de-bunking all this shit that the separatists get away with? It's not my job as a single citizen to point out all these things but our provincial liberals sure as Christ are not doing it and the best you can offer is "Canadians won't allow this" - What does that mean? What is anyone doing to stop it? What will Canadians do to stop it? NOBODY IS SAYING ANYTHING DIFFERENT EXCEPT FOR PEOPLE ON THE BLOG AND THAT'S TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!

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